off brand Kino tubes

I've found the biax tubes that come in the chinese biax units to all be pretty yellow - they need a violet color to get them clean, usually like 1/4ctb and 1/8 minus green.

Alzo's done a decent job with **some** of their daylight gear over the years. So those work out to $13 or so a tube after shipping, and they claim "equal or better than true match", I'd say give 'em a try - Amazon's pretty good about returns, even for non-prime items. Alzo generally answers tech support emails quickly too.

Kino True Match treat the bulbs for cleaner white output, but in my experience you lose some lumens with them, so it's a trade off - pricier bulbs with a little less output vs. brighter bulbs that need gelling in critical setups (if you're shooting with only cheap lamps they will white balance nicely, at least the ones I have). But if you're using other daylight sources they can throw a cast.

If you try 'em, post a review thread, as that's a pretty good price for a biax lamp.
 
I own one of the Alzo Pan-L (kino flo knock off) that I believe uses those tubes. I ordered them off ebay directly through Alzo a month ago:

Pan L Light: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALZO-Dimmab...452?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5641a5cd24 (I paid $415, so they do have deals on them)

Spare Tubes: http://www.ebay.com/itm/55W-Video-L...035?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae075eb8b

In general, I'm pleased with the Pan L and the tubes. There is definitely a slight green cast to the tubes, though.

I'm not the greatest gaffer in the world, but below are a couple ungraded screen shots from a couple days ago; the first the Pan L with out gels through a 4x4. The second and third ungraded with a minus green (can't remember if it was a minus 1/8th green or minus 1/4th) through a 4x4 (the background lights different temps than the key). I was hoping to be able to the use the tubes without gels in mixed lighting situations, but it appears that isn't the case.

alzo - no gel.jpg
Alzo Pan L - no gels through 4x4


alzo - minus green.jpg
Alzo Pan L - with minus green and warm-ish background lights


alzo minus green2.jpg
Alzo Pan L - with minus green and some cheap LED backlights
 
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Those look like they are knock-off versions of tubes for a Diva. If that's correct, the eBay linked tubes are MORE expensive than the real Kino tubes(B&H) and the Amazon link is more expensive than both when you factor in shipping.

I know people that have gone with off-brand Kino fixtures, but they buy real Kino tubes.

I actually wish that I would have checked B&H a few weeks ago before I replaced all of my 'tungsten' tubes in my Diva's. I have a Barbizon very close to me and it's convenient, but their prices aren't always great unless you push them.

I don't see why someone would by 'inferior' lamps just to TRY to save a few bucks, and in this case actually pay more. Why work harder by having to correct the light to try to make it look the way it should to begin with and possibly not be able to match with other light?
 
I had good luck with the Osram Dulux biax tubes.
They come in different temperatures, are only a few bucks a pop, and IMHO they have better skintones than the original Kinoflo tubes .
 
The Alzo's are $25 for a 2 pack on ebay, (or 12.50 each), so they are about $10 cheaper than what I saw on B&H for Kino Flos (unless you guys have a better source!). I decided to try them since they specifically mentioned being corrected for 'No Green Tint' although that turned out not to be the case.

Still a good deal in my opinion at 12.50 a tube, and I've had no problem with their light output, just be prepared to use minus green gels. Honestly, however, I probably will go with Osram or Kino Flo tubes in the future since I specifically wanted to avoid using gels all the time.
 
Run&Gun said:
Those look like they are knock-off versions of tubes for a Diva. If that's correct, the eBay linked tubes are MORE expensive than the real Kino tubes(B&H) and the Amazon link is more expensive than both when you factor in shipping.
Click to expand...

PLEASE let us know where you're finding True Match tubes for under $13 including shipping. I'll buy a dozen. I'm having a hard time swallowing that one... they're $22 a pop on B&H, free ship on orders of $50 or so.

By the way, they're not "knock off tubes for a diva". They're 55 watt biax flo tubes, it's a standard fluorescent tube that wasn't invented by Kino.
 
Postmaster said:
I had good luck with the Osram Dulux biax tubes.
They come in different temperatures, are only a few bucks a pop, and IMHO they have better skintones than the original Kinoflo tubes .
Click to expand...

Do you find the Dulux to be equal or better to the true match tubes? (Wondering if by "original" you mean the pre "true match" era).

Dulux are $5-6 less than true match. I'm going to upgrade some of my bigger asian units (the duals just get used for greenscreen lately... or work lights when I'm repairing things...)
 
Michael Carter said:
Kino True Match treat the bulbs for cleaner white output, but in my experience you lose some lumens with them, so it's a trade off - pricier bulbs with a little less output vs. brighter bulbs that need gelling in critical setups (if you're shooting with only cheap lamps they will white balance nicely, at least the ones I have). But if you're using other daylight sources they can throw a cast.
Click to expand...

Yep. That's how the "game" has to be played.

All fluorescent lighting uses mercury vapor as the medium, thus the "big green spike" in the output. The way to tame that spike is to gel it -- either in the tube (TrueMatch) or at the fixture (gels and c41s). Either way you do it decreases lumen output. Has to, the laws of physics and all that.

Once you do some color correction work because of lesser tubes, you'll be scratching your head wondering what you were thinking -- sometimes late into the night. Which would you rather have? The money or your time? My answer was to buy the better tubes. Clearly, YMMV.
 
Michael Carter said:
PLEASE let us know where you're finding True Match tubes for under $13 including shipping. I'll buy a dozen. I'm having a hard time swallowing that one... they're $22 a pop on B&H, free ship on orders of $50 or so.

By the way, they're not "knock off tubes for a diva". They're 55 watt biax flo tubes, it's a standard fluorescent tube that wasn't invented by Kino.
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My bad, I didn't realize that the off-brand tubes were being sold in multi-packs.

And what I meant by "knock off tubes for a diva", was that they appeared to be the "non-Kino-Flo brand" equivalent of tubes that fit a Diva or "non-Kino-Flo brand" equivalent. Is that more politically correct? :cool: I was trying to make sure that I was comparing "apples-to-apples".
 
My comment on knockoff was just to point out that the 55 Biax was an existing tube design before Kino came along (but I believe more popular in Europe/asia as a consumer item), and thus you're likely to see a wide range of CRIs and color rendering on the low end. So when you're shopping for tubes and see something for five bucks, keep in mind the majority of the market was designed for low cost - not every 55 biax out there was designed to at least reasonably work for a camera sensor!

A big part of the cost savings in Asian Kino knockoffs probably comes from cheaper tubes - if that gets you in the Biax door, it's not a deal-killer and you may have to gel or white balance if you don't want to invest in better tubes (and 4 true match tubes cost more than many quad fixtures these days...)

Myself, I'll likely leave my duals with the cheapies since those are almost exclusively green screen. My quads have done a fair amount of duty for interviews with diffusion and gels... until i discovered 400 watt Mogul HIDs with an aquarium ballast in a Photoflex Starlike softbox - that's an assload of light with a lot of control, never did come up with a way to get a softbox and grid on a quad.

The HID's another discussion entirely, but some sort of slip-on softbox with available fabric grids for a quad? that seems like a cheap and killer setup, though the photoflex solution gives you a lot easier placement options.
 
Michael Carter said:
A big part of the cost savings in Asian Kino knockoffs probably comes from cheaper tubes - if that gets you in the Biax door, it's not a deal-killer and you may have to gel or white balance if you don't want to invest in better tubes (and 4 true match tubes cost more than many quad fixtures these days...)
Click to expand...

What I don't quite understand is why people are continually complaining about the cost of high CRI lighting... when if they shot in B&W/(monochrome), 90% (still problems with sodium lights...) of the light's spectrum deficiencies disappear...

Now of course if one is making money in some sort of commerical activity, well obviously one has to pay the piper and buy what is needed to get the job done. For a good portion of the 'narrative short films', I'd say B&W would be 1) an enhancement 2) instructive on actual 'how to light a scene' for cinematic effect...
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
What I don't quite understand is why people are continually complaining about the cost of high CRI lighting... when if they shot in B&W/(monochrome), 90% (still problems with sodium lights...) of the light's spectrum deficiencies disappear...

Now of course if one is making money in some sort of commerical activity, well obviously one has to pay the piper and buy what is needed to get the job done. For a good portion of the 'narrative short films', I'd say B&W would be 1) an enhancement 2) instructive on actual 'how to light a scene' for cinematic effect...
Click to expand...

I've yet to be paid to shoot black and white... not in the "video era" anyway... I used to do some commercial fashion work with 4x5 B&W polaroid. I don't think one will get far in this business only being able to light and shoot b&w.

I really haven't seen many narrative films in B&W in the last few years either, but I suppose if someone decided that's all their lights were capable of they could give 'er a shot.

I did build a wet darkroom last year for a vintage camera film project, but that's for another forum entirely. If color science for video is tough, the zone system for B&W and antique alt processes is a challenge as well...
 
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