Odyssey7Q

Hi Dan,
Iis there going to be any type of screen protector? I love the disposable Small HD snap on screen protectors. Anything like that in the works or even an iPhone style thin stick on plastic sheet? I would hate to scratch the 7Q
 
chromeboy007 said:
Thanks Alan.

This is way too complicated... I feel bad for CD as their engineers have to get around licensing agreements and Sony's 2K problems and still want to give us what we want.

I love the design of the CD package with the nice monitor and touch screen and all, compared to Sony's ugly and otherwise functionless LCD bricks.

I would love for CD to release a 'good enough product' ASAP and tweak it with firmwares later. I think once they get real customer feedbacks they can provide better upgrades.
Click to expand...

Right on!!!
:Drogar-Mark-01(DBG)
 
Yeah and the first time they have to do a hardware fix because it was released too early people will kvetch. Let them do what they need to do.
 
Colinelves said:
As regards the 2K raw 'problems'. As I see it, the 2K RAW 'problems' are caused by the fact that the resolution of a 2K RAW image once debayered is less than that of a true 1080p image. You'll get more aliasing because the resolution is lower.
Click to expand...
Actually it's a lot more problematical than that. It's that they're trying to extract 2K raw off of a 4K raw sensor, while not changing the field of view. And that leads to some skipping of rows and colums of pixels, and that can cause aliasing and moire patterns.

TBH the 2K RAW you get from an Epic ain't that great either.
Click to expand...
But I'll make you a bet that the 2K raw off the Epic is quite a bit more "solid" (i.e., no aliasing, no weird artifacts) than the 2K off the Sony will be. The Epic windows down to sample a native 2K off the center of the sensor, so there's no additional aliasing introduced. Sony instead decided to prioritize maintaining the same field of view -- and that means they have to basically point-sample the sensor, and that is what will cause the aliasing.
 
Barry_Green said:
Actually it's a lot more problematical than that. It's that they're trying to extract 2K raw off of a 4K raw sensor, while not changing the field of view. And that leads to some skipping of rows and colums of pixels, and that can cause aliasing and moire patterns.


But I'll make you a bet that the 2K raw off the Epic is quite a bit more "solid" (i.e., no aliasing, no weird artifacts) than the 2K off the Sony will be. The Epic windows down to sample a native 2K off the center of the sensor, so there's no additional aliasing introduced. Sony instead decided to prioritize maintaining the same field of view -- and that means they have to basically point-sample the sensor, and that is what will cause the aliasing.
Click to expand...

I wonder why they wouldn't just make it a choice. Simply have two options in a menu: 2K "normal FOV" and 2K "crop".

Perhaps CD could somehow capture a 2K-resolution sample from the center of the 4K RAW stream with the 7Q?
 
Regarding 4K to 2K- I would guess they are averaging photosites together in much the same way the C300 does for green: ~4K (2xHD) photosites averaged to HD. This acts as a low pass filter and helps reduce aliasing. In the FS700, the resulting averaged values have to be put into a 2K raw Bayer format, meaning the green is now 1/2 resolution vs. the C300 final output at that point. However, the 5D3 1920x1080 RAW deBayered with ACR looks pretty good (decent resolution/detail), so perhaps they aren't averaging or have some other restriction (HW/SW design, patents, etc.).
 
jshbckr said:
I wonder why they wouldn't just make it a choice. Simply have two options in a menu: 2K "normal FOV" and 2K "crop".
Click to expand...
I wish they would, then you'd have the best of both worlds.

Perhaps CD could somehow capture a 2K-resolution sample from the center of the 4K RAW stream with the 7Q?
Click to expand...
I'm sure they could, but that defeats the purpose of why one goes to 2K on the FS700 in the first place, which is to get higher frame rates... You could always do a 2K extraction in post if that's all you wanted, although I would think you'd find you'd get better quality by keeping the full 4K and downrezzing it to 2K, instead of just extracting the central 2K.
 
Porsche intentionally cripples their Cayman model so they don't upstage their old icon, the 911. It wouldn't surprise me, at all, if Sony didn't want to make the FS700 too capable, as it would upstage their Cinealta product line at a much lower price...:kali:
 
cuervo said:
Porsche intentionally cripples their Cayman model so they don't upstage their old icon, the 911. It wouldn't surprise me, at all, if Sony didn't want to make the FS700 too capable, as it would upstage their Cinealta product line at a much lower price...:kali:
Click to expand...

Hackers apply within.
 
chromeboy007 said:
Hi Dan

Earlier in the thread you mentioned that the 7Q would not be able to do 1080 at any frame rates faster than 60 because the signal the 7Q gets from the FS700 is 4K.

But over the last pages you also stated that the 7Q would be able to record 2K at 120fps.

The above two statements seem contradictory. Can you please clarify when you have a minute?

To answer your question though, for now I would vote option #2, especially since you said option #1 would take you far longer.

But being able to overcrank at 240 or even 120 at a better codec than AVCHD is extremely important.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Dear ChromeBoy007

The output of the upgraded FS700 in HD mode is limited to 1080p60.

The output of the upgraded FS700 in 2K Raw mode is limited to 240 frames per second.

The output in 4K Raw mode is limited to 60 frames per second.
(The FS700 can write 4K to cache at 120 fps, but this is limited to around 4 seconds and is output at a slow rate.)

Thus, it depend on what source we use, plug other factors, to determine what maximum fame rate we can achieve in a specific mode.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
gene_can_sing said:
Hi Dan,
Iis there going to be any type of screen protector? I love the disposable Small HD snap on screen protectors. Anything like that in the works or even an iPhone style thin stick on plastic sheet? I would hate to scratch the 7Q
Click to expand...

Dear Gene_can_sing,

The glass on our OLED monitor is Gorilla Glass.

And this is protected by a removable, but factor installed, protective screen cover that is anti-glare and helps ensure that fingerprints are not a major problem.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Barry_Green said:
Actually it's a lot more problematical than that. It's that they're trying to extract 2K raw off of a 4K raw sensor, while not changing the field of view. And that leads to some skipping of rows and colums of pixels, and that can cause aliasing and moire patterns.


But I'll make you a bet that the 2K raw off the Epic is quite a bit more "solid" (i.e., no aliasing, no weird artifacts) than the 2K off the Sony will be. The Epic windows down to sample a native 2K off the center of the sensor, so there's no additional aliasing introduced. Sony instead decided to prioritize maintaining the same field of view -- and that means they have to basically point-sample the sensor, and that is what will cause the aliasing.
Click to expand...

Dear Friends,

I have been traveling again today.

Personally, I have not checked the quality of the Sony FS700 2K Raw quality.

Our team of engineers are closer to that issue.

I will offer an opinion.

My best guess is that Sony chose to do it this way (using the full sensor) to maintain the same angle of view, regardless of the frame rate while in 2K Raw mode.

Other methods have certain advantages and certain trade-offs.

I do not pretend to be an expect in this particular area, but I did not want anyone to feel that I was ignoring their posts.


Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear ChromeBoy007

The output of the upgraded FS700 in HD mode is limited to 1080p60.

The output of the upgraded FS700 in 2K Raw mode is limited to 240 frames per second.

The output in 4K Raw mode is limited to 60 frames per second.
(The FS700 can write 4K to cache at 120 fps, but this is limited to around 4 seconds and is output at a slow rate.)

Thus, it depend on what source we use, plug other factors, to determine what maximum fame rate we can achieve in a specific mode.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully,


Dan Keaton
Convergent Design
Click to expand...

That is great. Thanks Dan. Now hopefully CD and/or Sony will solve those 2K problems.
 
Dan, Will we be able to upload custom luts shooting log to the 7Q or would we have to manually adjust within the monitor. Also can that lut be exported to a second screen or village? Thanks Stan
 
Elevated Visual said:
Dan, Will we be able to upload custom luts shooting log to the 7Q or would we have to manually adjust within the monitor. Also can that lut be exported to a second screen or village? Thanks Stan
Click to expand...
The CD site for the 7Q has "ARRI, Canon, Sony and user-loadable LUTs" as a feature that will be added to the device. I don't know about outputting a LUT'd image.
 
Dan Keaton said:
The FS700 can write 4K to cache at 120 fps, but this is limited to around 4 seconds and is output at a slow rate.
Click to expand...

If so, then can we actually capture 4K 120fps internally on SD card? That would be similar to the HFR buffer/SD card offload cycle on the pre-upgrade FS700 at, say, 240fps HD.
 
cuervo said:
Porsche intentionally cripples their Cayman model so they don't upstage their old icon, the 911. It wouldn't surprise me, at all, if Sony didn't want to make the FS700 too capable, as it would upstage their Cinealta product line at a much lower price...:kali:
Click to expand...

That's not the reason. You can't downsample 4K raw to 2k (or whatever) raw. You first have to demosaic it, but then it is no longer raw. See

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cinefor...ownsample-raw-camera-without-demosaicing.html
 
Last edited:
chromeboy007 said:
That is great. Thanks Dan. Now hopefully CD and/or Sony will solve those 2K problems.
Click to expand...

There are no "problems" You can't downsample raw. That's crux of the matter. You can do it with video file, just fine, but not raw to raw downsampling. The only way to down sample raw is to skip lines, and that's what causing the issues.
 
evilthought...

As I've said elsewhere, I could care less about RAW. If I had the resources(storage space, acquisition pipeline, processing speed, throughput)to deal with 4K RAW, I'd be shooting an F5 or F55. The fact is, I shoot with an FS700. I accept 1080p as my format of choice. Given that, 444, 422 AND 10-bit are the minimum requirements I would like to be able to accept. If 4k RAW out of the FS700 external port can be demosaiced and windowed to 1080P, 10-bit, 422...I'd be very happy. No binning, no line skipping. I can accept a compression algorithm that is as clean as possible, Cineform, DNxHD or ProRes...again 10-bit 422 or 444. In fact, if an Slog2 profile could be applied to the encoding, then applied to the display, that would be ideal.This is where my post production workflow exists, and what I do. When 4K display becomes deriguer, I will rethink this philosophy, until then RAW is as rediculously useable as 3D, and just as faddish.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top