Not getting vibrant image

K

kookooframe

Well-known member
Now, I know it's me and not the camera -- too many skilled professionals use the A1 for this to be the camera's fault -- but I can't seem to get consistently satisfying footage out of my A1.

I've worked diligently at learning the A1 for over a year now -- forums here and elsewhere, reading and re-reading the manual, experimenting with presets. Yet my footage still looks dull to me compared to the Sony DS-250 I used to work with.

for instance, this piece here shot with the Film5296 preset. No color correction. http://www.vimeo.com/4488609

Sometimes I get the feeling it looks like I'm shooting through smog.

Is the answer color correction? But it's been said the presets are their own form of color correction. I've extensively tried Panalook and VIVIDRGB too.

Am I shooting at too low an exposure? I do use mostly auto (though with auto gain off, usually 0 or -3 on gain). I know I am far from mastering the zebra settings but if I do will it help alleviate this problem of darkish footage? Somehow it seems simultaneously too dark in the shadows and too washed out in the light. Hmm.

Or is the answer just to color correct anyway, boost the saturation, sharpness, and bring down the brightness? Would you think there are some gamma issues here?

Any suggestions appreciated!
 
It's really tough to judge anything with web video. It could be so many factors. I know Quicktime has some gamma issues on the windows side of things, and some extra steps have to be taken to maintain the same look as the original.

I will say that I color correct every shot I take, even when using a preset. An easy way to make the colors pop is to give your footage some contrast by using levels or curves. I use Magic Bullet Colorista, but you can use the built in filters in most editors. Drop the blacks down and raise the whites. Simplest method would be a nice S curve using the curves filter. And more importantly, get yourself a nice tripod. :)

On a side note, nice transfer of the super 8, I'm just starting to do that myself. I still haven't settled on the best frame rate and shutter speed. More testing to come.

-Kevin
 
It looks great to me. But my computer is going HDMI into an HDTV and it has a more contrasty setting. Most computer LCD's are more flat.
 
Hi Steve!...i believe you've visited one or two of my vids on Vimeo, and i thank you for that!

I have dealt with your exact frustration lately too. it seems when my footage is too vibrant, it looks too "video-like", so i always desaturate, which leaves me unsatisfied, because i have dull looking footage...then i see someone using the A1 with the same preset, and their videos POP without looking like cheesy video. but here's what i see from your video...

it doesn't look bad, for one. your focus is dialed in. very important!

lack of vibrancy lends itself to more of a shot-on-film look...not always bad...but i see where you're coming from.

man, if you've tried VividRGB...then i'm at a loss haha...i hated that preset when Stephen D. first introduced it, because to my eyes, it was TOO vibrant, and the blues and magenta casts werre too much for me as a nature shooter. but in my recent frustration with dull looking footage, i may be returning to it, because i'd rather have the extra color that i can dial-down in post, rather than trying to add color that isn't there. but i guess that depends on the quality of your CC tools. I use the cheapo Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum, and i just can't seem to CC to my liking, so I trust presets a lot.

i doubt i have given you answers here, but because i share similar frustrations, i thought i'd strike up dialog with you here instead of Vimeo.

Chris
www.vimeo.com/chrislight
 
Thanks, Skinny. Just looked at your Memories & Dust. The sound mix and conception is so great on that. I love good images but I have a secret theory that sound is actually more important than image in producing an emotional effect on people.

Anyway, it's good to know that the presets can do the job on my stuff, and may even be doing the job right now, if Jleo's HDTV can be trusted. I do know how to work levels from a recent photoshop class, so I'm going take Snack's advice and experiment more with color correction -- contrast and saturation to start. Maybe I'm not as far from what I want as I think.

(By the way, Snack, about transferring Super 8, I found a way to get absolutely flicker free transfer -- though this discovery came sometime after I posted those transfers you see on Vimeo. Using the A1 in Tv, Clear Scan, or Auto mode, just work the shutter until the black line and flicker disappears. I used manual focus, set gain at +3 or whatever looked best. Aimed projector at a piece of light grey bond paper so the image was about 7 or 8 inches wide. Then I shot it in widescreen HDV at 60i with the film 5296 preset, centering the image in the viewfinder so the 4X3 super 8 image looks naturally pillarboxed.

I was getting some lovely transfers. But just at this point my third and final eBay projector died. I went through three that I paid over a hundred bucks for each! After all those hours of experimentation I ended up transferring less than half an hour of good footage. I was just really getting going but the projectors let me down! Too damned old, and no one makes new ones. So now I guess I'll have to send my stuff to a transfer house after all.
 
I've been struggling with these same issues--and taken the basic advice I've picked up from these forums to improve my footage:

* Use presets to emulate film stock (thanks DVXUser.com!)
* Set the gain to -3
* Turn off AWB
* Pay close attention to the white balance
* Use a great monitor if you can
(am I forgetting any?)

My next step is to experiment with converting my m2t files from the camera into Cineform's 4:2:2 (has free trial). From Cineform's website:

During conversion, CineForm doubles the chroma (color) accuracy of the source files for improved color accuracy and chroma keying. (HDV and AVCHD cameras record in a color-reduced format known as 4:2:0 that CineForm restores to professional 4:2:2 chroma.)

Wikipedia has a great explanation of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

Unfortunately I only have video posted pre-cineform (http://www.vimeo.com/4792659). Detail is good, but it's noisy since the gain was set to 0.
 
Thanks! I will try your suggestions -- especially turning off auto white balance. -3 dB gain it is.

If you get a chance, let us know how that cineform conversion looks.
 
Color space has little to do with how the color is rendered, most of that is in the factory setting.
 
My check list, zebra setting to 75%, camera gain -3 and automatic gain off, Panalook2 or True Color (or True Color with stretch on).

In Final Cut Pro: Color Correct 3-way always lower/cursh the blacks a little then up the highs a hair as well as up the contrast a little.
 
Thanks! One question -- if zebra is a 75, so then no stripes should show on a correctly exposed face? Or should the stripes just be starting to show?
 
Gain is the camera amplifying the signal to make the picture brighter. The higher the gain, the noisier the picture. In low light you would want to increase the gain to get a useable picture. when there is enough light, most people set the gain to -3 to get the cleanest image possible. We turn AGC off so that the camera isn't deciding when to add gain, that's a decision we should be making.

-Kevin
 
creepyclownproduction's said:
Thanks.. but in the presets, there are three different options ending in gain!

which should i turn down?
Click to expand...

Those refer to color gain. The users above were referring to electronic gain. You'll see the switch on the side of the camera, it has a low, medium, and high setting. You can set each one to whatever you want. Most people set the low setting to be -3. This setting gives the cleanest image, at the cost of losing a slight amount of dynamic range.

As for the color settings, refer to whatever preset you want to use. I personally use a modified True Color preset, or the Canon factory default preset. I grade every shot in post so I just try to capture a clean flat image.

-Kevin
 
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