Noise on movement?

zeke said:
This is a little disheartening. Every time I get ready to buy this camera, something always comes up. I guess I need to move on.
Note: My interest is in movie making, not WEVA type stuff. So the excess noise in the background is a real issue for me.
Click to expand...

If your interest is movie making the DSLRs are really a no-brainer.
 
If you look at the situation on balance, there still is a lot more right with the HPX series cameras than there is with shooting video on DLSR's. After you buy all the after market stuff to franken rig your DSLR, you're still left with lots of rolling shutter, moire, some crummy 8 bit origination codec, double system sound just to mention a few things.
 
zeke said:
I'm holding out for an affordable 10bit workflow. There is much more to makin movies than shallow DOF.
But thanks for the thought.
Click to expand...

I was waiting for the Scarlet 2/3" Fixed, but it didn't show up.

I sure know there's a lot more than shallow DOF, but small sensor deep DOF is not a desirable feature either.

The situation pretty much is:

Crappy compression, subsampling, other compromises and deep DOF.
Crappy compression, subsampling, other compromises shallow (or not if you want) DOF.

And the second option is even attenuated if you use a hacked GH1.

That's why I said the DSLRs are a no brainer. Well, unless you have the budget for a RED One M-X.
 
Some of the images I've seen from the hacked GH1 are quite good, but even those images come with some penalties in terms of record times. Its far from a perfect hack, but interesting in that it points to what might be possible in the future with the kind of sensor in the GH1.

If you are interested in film making you might want to look at an Arri Alexa. Seems like Arri has got something quite nice going with that camera.
 
I have a JVC HD100 and can rent if needed. I even used the JVC HM100 on a short recently.
I was going to purchase the HPX 370 but will wait to see what the firmware update does.
When not making movies, I can use it to earn on Corporate work.
I'm actually interested in the Scarlett S35, not the fixed.
But that won't happen until well into 2011 for me.

I haven't ruled out the PMW 350 either, but the extra cost of getting it into 10bit gives me pause.
Ideal situation would have been hpx370, PS Teknic mini35 all for under 20K.
 
Firmware update released for 370 and 300:
News for P2 products
I. [Update] AG-HPX370, AG-HPX300 series
II. New CAC files for AJ-HPX3700 series etc.
------------------------------------------------------------
I. Updated: AG-HPX370 ,AG-HPX300 series
------------------------------------------------------------
AG-HPX370 series
1. Two types of P.A.P.Filters
You can choose two kinds of P.A.P. filters to improve image quality.
2. Applicable Lens models for CAC function were added.
These CAC files require updating the firmware of AG-HPX370 series.

Latest version software of AG-HPX370 seires
https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/cs/csregistp2m/ep2main/soft/upghpx370_e.htm

AG-HPX300 series
Applicable Lens models for CAC function were added.
These CAC files require updating the firmware of AG-HPX300 series.

Latest version software of AG-HPX300 seires
https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/cs/csregistp2m/ep2main/soft/upghpx300_e.htm

*"P2 Status logger" is available.
Log-in -> "Download P2 Status logger"
http://panasonic.biz/sav/pass_e

------------------------------------------------------------
II.New CAC files
------------------------------------------------------------
Chromatic Aberration Compensation (CAC) is to minimize
neighboring blur, it automatically compensates the
blur that is caused mainly by lens chromatic aberration.

The CAC function is automatically activated when a lens in the CAC database is connected.
The CAC database can be updated by importing CAC files, which are
available in PASS.

The following CAC files for AJ-HPX3700, AJ-HPX2700,AJ-HPX3000 series are newly available
For Fujinon HA22X7.3BERM-M58
For Canon KJ22ex7.6B IASE / IRSE

The following CAC files for AG-HPX370 , AG-HPX300 series are newly available
For Canon KT17ex4.3B IRSD PS12

Learn more details and download CAC files:
PASS portal http://panasonic.biz/sav/pass_e
Log-in > "Library" > "Utility software" > CAC Files (for P2 Camerarecoder)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be removed from the mailing list, please change the subscription status
in your "Customer profile" at the PASS members site:
Log in: http://panasonic.biz/sav/pass_e
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GaryNattrass said:
Anyone know what a P.A.P filter is?
Click to expand...

No, but I think it's safe to assume that it's a way to get rid of some of the artefacts we've all been talking about, and basically turning down the processing that has given use less noise and extra sensitivity (and maybe even skew) - so in other words it's an HPX300 emulator!
Steve
 
GaryNattrass said:
Anyone know what a P.A.P filter is?

This looks like another bodge to fix a design problem or am I just being cynical?
Click to expand...

The HPX370 brochure says:

Newly Developed U.L.T.*1 Image Sensor with F10*2 Sensitivity and Superb Image Quality

High levels of sensitivity and image quality have been achieved with a new high-sensitivity photodiode and low-noise pixel transistor, both based on low-noise analog process technology that was accumulated in Panasonic CCD camera development. Plus, the same levels of sensitivity and image quality that are found in Interlace mode are now possible in Progressive mode thanks to P.A.P. (Progressive Advanced Processing), a 3D adaptive processing technology...

*1: Ultra Luminance Technology
*2: F10 sensitivity in 1080/59.94i and F11 sensitivity in 1080/50i at 2,000 lx.
 
Well ive installed the new firmware on my 371,i havent done any heavy testing but this is what ive noticed so far:-

1) when i toggle between default type 1 & type 2 there is a very slight change in sensitivity (my scene went from f2.8 to f2 but i didnt have controlled lighting present)

2) Im not noticing any change in noise at all so all good on that front.

3) im not seeing any shimmering when i film the fine veins on plant leaves like i used to before.

4) It could be the placebo effect of having new firmware but im sure the image seems a little sharper than before.

Would love to see what others report seeing on their updates.

cheers

Andy
 
Just upgraded to new firmware. Haven't done any solid tests yet, but did want to chime in to say that it DOES seems to help.
My blink is that PAP type 2 reduces the shifting noise during movement, but doesn't totally eliminate it.
It also gives the impression of more sharpness.
As Andy said, there is a slight hit in light sensitivity, about .5 to 1 stop.
Not sure yet if this is going to be enough for us to keep the camera, but I am optimistic.

-Josh
 
Here's a very quick (and boring) video showing the 371 after the firmware update.

Nothing special but i always got the shimmering noise effect on leaves and foliage, now i dont....

If you watch it full screen with scaling turned off in vimeo to my eyes its sharper than my 371 was before the firmware update :)

http://vimeo.com/13941656
 
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Whow, Andy!

Thank you so much... Looks fantastic! And yes... it looks sharper.

May I ask, what were your settings for Gamma and Matrix?

Best,

Henry.

Edit:

Sorry... just read you shot VIVID... Gamma: LOW; Matrix: NORM2.
 
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Garion said:
If you watch it full screen with scaling turned off in vimeo to my eyes its sharper than my 371 was before the firmware update :)

http://vimeo.com/13941656
Click to expand...

This is something I commented on to Andy at AbelCine when he did his review of the 370 http://blog.abelcine.com/2010/04/05/at-the-bench-with-panasonic-hpx370/. He did a side by side of the lack of noise and it definitely was much less noisy than the 300, but it also did look a lot less sharp. This is when I first mentioned that it seemed to me to be purely a software fix, just like using Noise Ninja or something similar on stills - you get less noise but at the expense of sharpness.
Steve
 
I think its more than just noise filtering involved, the new sensor i believe has a cleaner output than the 300, i think they just went a little overboard with the filtering before and softened the image too much. After the firmware upgrade i have gained resolution, lost a little sensitivity but i dont appear to have gained any more noise. Keeping the same noise floor and gaining resolution is very nice.

I have tried shooting at +6db gain and the noise is the same on both noise settings,default is of course brighter but i now prefer the 2nd setting as i think it looks a little more filmic?
Dont know how to describe it but the 371 initially was a little too bright i always had to close it down a little.

i didnt mention it earlier but even the default noise setting seemed better than before.

I do agree with the rest of you that this should have been discovered during its testing, im just glad that Panny do listen to us and do try to set things right (eventually).

Tbh ill gladly ltrade a little sensitivity to gain the picture quality i now have. Most of what i shoot is outdoors and even with full nd on i was often struggling to keep the aperture at or below f5.6 . Never thought id ever say that in our normally dull and gloomy ol England lol.
 
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