C200: No C200 Firmware Update???
- Thread starter madeprime
- Start date
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Maybe they're taking longer because they are correcting all of the issues we listed in our firmware update request list thread below? ;-)
@Puredrifting wouldn't that be nice? Anyways I wanted to ask you how are you loving your c200 on a scale of 1-10? And do you think a red scarlet-w would bee a massive step up? I'm really only considering it because of my clients requesting it. But as far as DPAF, RAW, 4k60, I think this may be the best gimbal music video camera ever at any price for a one man band.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
I'd be happy if they even addressed a third of what we put on our laundry list.
On a scale of 1-10, I am going to say I like the C200 at about an 8. All of the bugs (default to 60p frame rate on format change, send out magnified signal as default via HDMI to my Ninja Blade recorder, really?!?!??) bug me (or just really unintelligent and unintuitive default settings) a lot and I have almost messed up a few high profile shoots because of them. I find the .MP4 surprisingly usable for a lot of applications even though everyone says it's under spec. So far, Cinema RAW Light seems pretty cool, I am shooting two feature documentaries entirely with CRL and some preliminary tests with CC and grading show me that that was a smart move. Audio is great, DPAF is a life saver, not perfect, it's freaked out on me a few times and has hunted when it couldn't/shouldn't have (Face Only means only faces, right C200? So why are you hunting around when I have a perfectly lit , straight on to camera face in frame?) But overall, DPAF has done me more good than bad.
Personally I am not crazy about the RED production workflow, the pricing structure for all of the necessary accessories and storage are kind of a ripoff IMHO and the images look bit too digital for my preference. Beautiful but not filmic at all and I was and still am more of a film guy - Alexa is the best looking, most film-like camera in the market IMHO). I had a RED Weapon for a month to mess with and used it on half a dozen shoots and for my shooting situations, honestly, the RED way of doing things was overall more tedious and time consuming (almost an hour to black shade for multiple frame rates?!?!?) So personally, I would see the Scarlet W as a lateral move and an expensive one at that. What's a shootable configuration Scarlet W going to set you back, four or five C200's worth of $$$? It's not four or five hundred percent better than the C200. But that's me and I mostly shoot documentaries and BTS type marketing stuff where the C200 is perfect. The RED is obviously a "better" camera subjectively, but as to how much better, that's up to you and your wallet. For me, it wouldn't get my clients to pay me more and I doubt it would get me more gigs, I would need an 8K Helium or Monstro for that and I will never own that expensive of a camera again.
If I existed mainly in the music video/commercial/feature world, a RED would be a smart camera to own. Although to be fair, my producing partner has an older Scarlet that he has updated a lot and he hardly EVER shoots with it, he is usually renting a C300 MKII, FS7 or uses his HPX270 for lower end jobs. I keep telling him to dump it while it's still worth something and he said he is going to. But he shoots a lot of corporate, a little bit of broadcast type stuff and he hardly ever gets to rent it out to his clients. So it gathers dust. Today's state of the art is tomorrow's dust bunny catcher. That's the wisdom of only buying cheap cameras like the C200. You can pay if off in just a few months and then it's making you profit. Then in two years when it is hopelessly outdated, it's no big deal. But with a RED or something, that is some financial pain when it becomes outdated.
Last edited:
Nickelsvision
Member
Completely agree with everything mentioned. I really look at RED cameras as mainly bragging rights but the C series cameras have been good to me since day 1. The number 1 thing I like about the C200 is that I can bring just 1 lens and a shotgun mic and can capture almost anything. Built ND's, RAW and Canon color science were the reason why I chose the C200.
For me it's an even better experience with the c200 because I'm coming from a c300ii and I'm not a colorist so I find being able to use raw to save my butt as well as have a DPAF gimbal cam can't be replaced. I'll probably buy and old scarlet like your production buddy has because my clientele could care let what model it is as long as it says red. Thats why I could never buy a super expensive one. BTW the only tangible difference I can feel is that I've never seen POPPING colors from a C-series camera like you do on RED. I always get a somewhat washed out color that isn't...."rich" like a RED. I'm sure you could though. Any tips? Do I need to expose differently?
puredrifting
Major Contributor
It's all with what you do with it in post IMHO. If you aren't getting the colors you want, I suggest watching some YouTube videos, especially the ones by Crimson Engine, he gets really popping colors with CRL (he adds too much sharpness for my taste), but you cannot deny that the colors he is getting out of the C200 are poppy. Always remember, CRL is like any other RAW, it's just unmolded clay that you can do a lot with in post. That's why I am shooting it, my hope is that I'll be able to hire an expert colorist at the end and they'll be able to make my footage look the way I want to see it. I am not a colorist by any stretch of the imagination, it's such a different mindset and skillset than even editing, I am a decent editor and I can tweak things a bit but I will be hiring an expert to make my images look rich and epic.
Mark Smith
Veteran
[
Personally I am not crazy about the RED production workflow, the pricing structure for all of the necessary accessories and storage are kind of a ripoff IMHO and the images look bit too digital for my preference.
I recently shot with a Helium and a Raven. I liked what I saw from the cameras and had some fun with the short Raven shoot. Even with the Raven which is the low end camera in Red’s line , the possibilities with the camera from photographic point of view are really diverse and rich. I was able to get some really good images out of the camera even though the shooting conditions were “available darkness”. Add up all the accessories and media even for a Raven and it becomes a significant number quickly.
For most of what I shoot, the Raven would be a real drag, no internal ND’s its sort of battery hungry and building into a decent hand held rig can be done but its an odd collection of parts even more so than my Zacuto HH rig for my C 300Mk2.
While I’d like my C300 Mk2 to be able to shoot 120 fps 4k like a raven, there are too many other things that make the Canon camera more quickly adaptable to very different shooting situations, so I’ll be sad about the no 4k 120 fps capability and be happy that I have a camera that for most of the situation I encounter works very well.
Personally I am not crazy about the RED production workflow, the pricing structure for all of the necessary accessories and storage are kind of a ripoff IMHO and the images look bit too digital for my preference.
I recently shot with a Helium and a Raven. I liked what I saw from the cameras and had some fun with the short Raven shoot. Even with the Raven which is the low end camera in Red’s line , the possibilities with the camera from photographic point of view are really diverse and rich. I was able to get some really good images out of the camera even though the shooting conditions were “available darkness”. Add up all the accessories and media even for a Raven and it becomes a significant number quickly.
For most of what I shoot, the Raven would be a real drag, no internal ND’s its sort of battery hungry and building into a decent hand held rig can be done but its an odd collection of parts even more so than my Zacuto HH rig for my C 300Mk2.
While I’d like my C300 Mk2 to be able to shoot 120 fps 4k like a raven, there are too many other things that make the Canon camera more quickly adaptable to very different shooting situations, so I’ll be sad about the no 4k 120 fps capability and be happy that I have a camera that for most of the situation I encounter works very well.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Very similar to my experience in that REDs seem to be best in controlled situations, that's why they are so good for commercials, music videos and narrative. But for documentary/run&gun, they just feel like the wrong tool while a C300 MKII or C200 feels like the right tool when you don't have the time and resources to do things properly, you can still end up with very usable, nice footage with the Canon while trying to shoot in those same circumstances with a RED can be very frustrating. Like low light. I shot with the Weapon with the Dragon 6K imager and that imager doesn't like low light/high ISO at all, we shot some available light stuff at ISO 1600 and it was quite noise filled, that imager likes light. My C200 makes very pretty images at ISO 1600 or even 3200 should the situation call for it.
Mark Smith
Veteran
Red camera is defintely for controlled situations where you have plenty of support, DIT, AC, sound and a plan to shoot A,B,C,D with the architecture to support the plan.
C300- 200 can transition so much faster in fluid siutations. It can be the right tool even if you do have some resources... If I pack my Think Tank bag correctly I can get on a plane, land some place, meet some local crew and do a lot with what I have in my bag.
C300- 200 can transition so much faster in fluid siutations. It can be the right tool even if you do have some resources... If I pack my Think Tank bag correctly I can get on a plane, land some place, meet some local crew and do a lot with what I have in my bag.
Ok I'm usually the one who's telling people to calm down and be patient when we're waiting for these things, but even I'm now wondering what's going on. I believe they said "early 2018", which I interpret as meaning 1st quarter and we're approaching the end of that. Canon does have a history of sometimes dating their firmware releases, so it's not out of line to wonder what's going on in early March.
Hopefully, like Drifting joked about, they're actually making this update better than just adding a redundant 8-bit codec...
Hopefully, like Drifting joked about, they're actually making this update better than just adding a redundant 8-bit codec...