Nikon D500 - DX format UHD shooting at $2K

roxics

roxics

Veteran
Just like the D5, the D500 has the ability to capture striking 4K UHD video at up to 30p (3840x2160), as well as Full HD (1080p) video at a variety of frame rates. Ready for any production, the camera sports a host of pro video features derived from the D810, including uncompressed HDMI output and Picture Controls, but adds even more great features. These pro-level creative video features include the ability to create 4K time-lapse movies in-camera, Auto ISO smoothing to provide fluid transitions in exposure during recording, and the capability to record 4K UHD video to the card and output to HDMI simultaneously. When capturing 1080p Full HD content, the camera also has a new 3-axis electronic VR feature that can be activated regardless of the lens being used. Challenging video exposures are no problem for the D500, as it also adds in Active D-Lighting to Full HD video to balance exposure values within a scene to help prevent blown-out highlights
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Nikon moves to 4K with a tilting LCD screen. Nice.
 
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shorty15 said:
Bad News: The 4K imaging area is approx. a 1.5x crop on the sensor so we have a 1.5X crop on an APSC sensor giving us a cam with a 2x crop like the GH4.
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Well then they better release an inexpensive 12mm prime to counter this problem.

BTW what is up with all these cameras doing further cropping in video mode lately?
 
The crop is so they can do a full sensor read out without the need to skip lines (they skip lines because the sensor has way more resolution than the video resolution). All Nikon had to do was lower the megapixel count so they wouldn't need to crop as much but they are mainly targeting stills shooters who are still dumb enough to buy into the whole megapixel war thing. If the sensor was say 12 to 14 megapixels, the crop would have been way less.
 
Honestly it doesn't bother me that much so long as there are wide angle solutions that don't cost a fortune. We're basically getting 4K video from a full size GH4 sensor (if the GH4 didn't crop for video itself) off this D500.
 
roxics said:
Well then they better release an inexpensive 12mm prime to counter this problem.

BTW what is up with all these cameras doing further cropping in video mode lately?
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To get rid of the line skipping they typically have to do. DSLR cameras have way more pixels than what video formats have so they either have to line skip, down convert or do a crop. All of which have their own side effects. Line skipping is well known to introduce pretty bad image artifacts that have plagued DSLR cameras for a long time. Cropping takes a hit to the FOV but leaves the image as clean as physically possible without any odd image processing to make the full sensor readout scale down to video sizes.

Traditional video cameras and true cinema cameras don't have this problem because the sensors are designed to capture the actual video format they were designed for and not have to capture larger resolution stills. In order for a DSLR to capture the cleanest raw image possible from the sensor and also not have to do cropping it would need to be a 12MP sensor like the SONY A7S which has just enough pixels for 4k video. Personally I wish more DSLRs would go this direction but the stills crowd doesn't like being limited to 12MP so its a harder decision for camera makers to take since it really limits their market to just the film crowd. Using a 12MP sensor also has the benefit of being even more sensitive because each photosite is larger and can capture more light. Thats really how the Sony A7S is as sensitive as it is. Its fullframe but the low light magic happens because each photosite is massive compared to other fullframe DSLR cameras.
 
shorty15 said:
If the sensor was say 12 to 14 megapixels, the crop would have been way less.
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But then they sell fewer cameras, 4k video isn't what's driving Nikons sales, its still shooters. Better DR, better AF compared to the competition, faster operation and so on are what's important to the masses with this camera.
 
Thomas Smet said:
To get rid of the line skipping they typically have to do. DSLR cameras have way more pixels than what video formats have so they either have to line skip, down convert or do a crop.
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I just figured by this point the new processors would be fast enough to do a real-time down convert from 18MP (or whatever the 16:9 crop of that 20.9MP sensor would be). I guess not.
 
roxics said:
I just figured by this point the new processors would be fast enough to do a real-time down convert from 18MP (or whatever the 16:9 crop of that 20.9MP sensor would be). I guess not.
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Samsung can do it with the NX1, but they're clearly at the front of camera processor speed/development, I'd guess Nikon is a little behind.
 
C100Scottie said:
makes me wonder if there is any Samsung tech in these new releases.
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Maybe some memory and processors.

In any case, this is a shot against Canon 6- and 7-series, a nice all-rounder but not outstanding in anything in particular. Pansonic has GX8 for about a thousand less.
 
If you need a camera that can do both stills and video, I think the D500 is a pretty good way to go. I've got a few questions that I can't seem to find answers to right now. Please chime in if you know.

1. Can you change aperture while in Live View?
2. What is the bit depth and chroma subsampling of 4k and HD video? 8-bit 4:2:0?
3. What is the video recording bit rate?
4. Brochure says 4k uncompressed is available out of HDMI port. Is HD uncompressed also available? And is it raw, or 10-bit 4:2:2, or what?
5. What is the dynamic range of the video?
 
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I could get into that crop mode. I like the crop factors that help standard primes work at the right distances for me. But i will never complain if they make a standard s35 frame. Can't beat standards. All these cameras cropping all over the place, it is cool to have the options, but gets a little annoying too. I did like the 1.3ish 4K (not UHD) on the 1DC, and have wanted to see if m43 had a similar feel, albiet with more dof. I just haven't liked the aesthetics of panasonic of late. They make good cameras though.
 
there won't be any RAW or 10bit out. 8bit 4.2.2. Internal 4.2.0, probably even for HD; otherwise they would have mentioned the upgraded abilities in the release literature. Haven't seen anything on bitrate, gonna be H.264 still. One area of small improvement might be DR compared to current crop. Also looks like D500 is going to get zebras. I didn't see that mentioned for the D5 though....
 
hojomo said:
there won't be any RAW or 10bit out. 8bit 4.2.2. Internal 4.2.0, probably even for HD; otherwise they would have mentioned the upgraded abilities in the release literature. Haven't seen anything on bitrate, gonna be H.264 still. One area of small improvement might be DR compared to current crop. Also looks like D500 is going to get zebras. I didn't see that mentioned for the D5 though....
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Should be plenty nice enough for any stills shooter. Most people don't see 8bit artifacts anyway.

i would leave dslr's out of the whole high end video realm,but I love the dslr bodies. Always enjoyed them over video lunch boxes. Will keep an eye on how these techs meet. (I dislike mirrorless bodies thus far, good image, nice evf, not my favorite to use. I like the sculpted small form factor of a dslr, with purpose plced buttons, with that rugged materials weather seals and confidence. Highly adaptable to any placement or rig. C100 was too big and just wasn't here nor there. At least the bigger video cameras are great on the shoulder. )

i definitely want to stop asking for better video from dslr's, after all, it has been 8 years of this. They'll get there when they get there.
 
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James0b57 said:
i would leave dslr's out of the whole high end video realm,but I love the dslr bodies.
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I agree. Although I still desire those higher end features because of my unique circumstance. I use a DSLR as my own personal camera. It's what I own and use for family stuff and shoestring indie projects of my own creation. I'm a salary guy at work so I use bigger cameras the company owns for my day job. But on my own dime, which is capped to a certain amount every year, I go for DSLRs because I also like to shoot stills. So it's a two-in-one thing for a lower price. I can't throw $10K at an FS7 setup and another $2-3K for a stills camera for my personal stuff like some of these freelance guys who are owner/operators. It's not in my personal budget. When I'm done with a shoot here at work, that gear goes into lockup until the next shoot. It doesn't come home with me when I want it to use it for my own needs. Problem is I'm spoiled by the bigger cameras I shoot with during the day, so I know what I'm missing when I go back to my own DSLR. Hence my desire to see them keep improving.
 
roxics said:
I just figured by this point the new processors would be fast enough to do a real-time down convert from 18MP (or whatever the 16:9 crop of that 20.9MP sensor would be). I guess not.
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The processor is surely capable of doing that, but the sensor can't read out the information fast enough: rolling shutter would be unbearably slow. For 1080p the solution was to do line-skipping, but for 4K that's only an option if the sensor has 40 Mpix or more, like on the a7R II. For 4K, if the sensor is not fast enough, the way to get fast-enough rolling shutter is to use a 1:1 crop.

I also like DSLRs, or, more specifically, cheap cameras. I also don't use my camera for paid work so I can't spend $8K on it. Having said that, I'm perfectly happy with the a7 body. In fact, this Xmas I saw again the 5D that my father uses and, after 18 months with an a7S, it shocked me: I had forgotten how big it is. I will go for a bigger body if the image is a lot better, but everything else equal, I'll take the smaller camera (ok, my current RX100 IV is too small for most stuff, I'll give you that).
 
Samuel H said:
The processor is surely capable of doing that, but the sensor can't read out the information fast enough: rolling shutter would be unbearably slow. For 1080p the solution was to do line-skipping, but for 4K that's only an option if the sensor has 40 Mpix or more, like on the a7R II. For 4K, if the sensor is not fast enough, the way to get fast-enough rolling shutter is to use a 1:1 crop.

I also like DSLRs, or, more specifically, cheap cameras. I also don't use my camera for paid work so I can't spend $8K on it. Having said that, I'm perfectly happy with the a7 body. In fact, this Xmas I saw again the 5D that my father uses and, after 18 months with an a7S, it shocked me: I had forgotten how big it is. I will go for a bigger body if the image is a lot better, but everything else equal, I'll take the smaller camera (ok, my current RX100 IV is too small for most stuff, I'll give you that).
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I have thought about making a custom grip for a sony A camera, but attaching an avoiding covering functional areas is a challange. The cages are all right, but add useless bulk and more hard edges. I like it when the camera is nice to hold. That is my aesthetic. It is similar to the idea of a backpack. Some people just don't need to wear one for hours, and want something simple, others have to hike for hours a day, and want something that is as comfortable and intune with there body as possible. A camera is already going to be a pain at some point, i like them when they scultped to a human hand.


there are uses for gopros, p+s, and slim mirrorless bodies. But in the day to day, i can't help but admit, that i use my hands to change funtions and hold the camera. Makes sense to make a camera for hands!

Sure let's keep the options out there, but i am a little sad that this many years has gone by, and the 1DC is still the only dslr to get good balance between ergonomics and image quality (even then, the inage quality was passable rather than cinema).


Manufacturers have come up with every other option out there expect for an ergonomic dslr-like-camera with good iq. 8years. Only maybe one camera that fits that discription...... Seems like they are missing the point trying to differentiate themselves in the market.
 
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Kind of surprising nobody else besides Panasonic is getting on the true 4k 4096x2160 band wagon. Since thats a cinema standard and exceptionally easy to do with a crop of the sensor other camera manufacturers should be giving that as an option as well. Plus the 10bit HDMI and HD-SDI output. After all this time the GH4 still has a solid advantage to those who really need true 4k and 10bit.

Light can always be added to a professional shoot. Extra pixels, a wider aspect ratio and bit depth cannot.
 
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