Sam Scoggins
Well-known member
Mr Bloom's Low light test reshoot:
http://vimeo.com/23022451
http://vimeo.com/23022451
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NEX FS 100 footage thread and links
- Thread starter HKO
- Start date
David G. Smith
Steak Knife Member
HKO
Well-known member
Hands on appraisal from Phil Baxter at Creative Video UK. Interestingly, he says that the camera is:
First time I've heard this, but iet's hope that it is true for the Americas and Asia as well as Europe!
First time I've heard this, but iet's hope that it is true for the Americas and Asia as well as Europe!
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Wow, that test with the F3 looks great, the difference in the resolved detail was pretty straightforward to me. The 5D and AF100 footage looked what I would expect from either. In fact, I thought the AF100 footage was even cleaner than my settings. Very nice. The FS100 at 30dB gain, wow.
Pertaining to availability, I'm still trying to find out where a good place is to pre-order. I've also sent an email to Sony trying to find out, and to just start some dialog on availability. I'll let everyone know if I get more details.
Pertaining to availability, I'm still trying to find out where a good place is to pre-order. I've also sent an email to Sony trying to find out, and to just start some dialog on availability. I'll let everyone know if I get more details.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Thanks for the heads up!
moldcad
Veteran
Watching them on my 50" plasma I must say that:
- the F3 is gorgeous
- the FS100 is not far behind
- the difference between the above 2 is much, much smaller than between the FS100 and the AF101
- the 5D is the worst, by far.
What I mean is that the noise (and I am a little paranoid about noise - those who followed my threads on the noise from EX1/nanoFlash know that) is very film-like on both the S35 cameras - almost no chroma noise, just some grain...While it's very videoish (still acceptable) from the AF101, it becomes unacceptable with the Canon (not only is the chroma noise visible, but it takes an ugly pattern of horizontal smears).
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
I noticed that as well with the 5D footage, as I get with my 7D too. When I am doing compositing with 3D elements with 7D footage, I use the colored noise filter to get it to match (and it does pretty well). For the AF100, when I have noise in a shot, I use the monochrome noise to match because the noise, as you say, doesn't have that chroma component.
It is interesting how different the night/day tests are. In looking at the day tests, I thought the cameras performed pretty similarly and I'd have been happy with any of the 3. I didn't think the extra detail of the F3 really popped out during those tests, unlike the night test where the difference is pretty extreme to my eyes.
It is interesting how different the night/day tests are. In looking at the day tests, I thought the cameras performed pretty similarly and I'd have been happy with any of the 3. I didn't think the extra detail of the F3 really popped out during those tests, unlike the night test where the difference is pretty extreme to my eyes.
Mhhhh, I just read the thread and looked at this file 0005.MTS and I must admit, noise in the shadows is awesome (0 DB = 800 ISO, right?) BUT, I watched it in WMP, in VLC, Imported it Sony Vegas, which correcrly interprets the footage as progressive, exported to Cineform and there is quite a bit aliasing going on on the roof! Just like my 60D would look like.
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/equw9cte/Bild1.jpg <- Screengrab of MTS
The images of my GH2 never had any aliasing and look higher resolved. The FS100 resolution looks more like my old NX5 which was somewhere between 720p and 1080p but more like 720p
I´m a little shocked because I was looking forward to buying the FS100.
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maranfilms
Veteran
I was geared up to but this cam to, then I bought a gh2, and have been using my old fd glass. Now that im learning to tune this cam in, im getting amazing image quality. But the DR is just not there. Of course for a grand, I wouldnt expect it to have the dr the fs100 does. I still may buy it though. im flip flopping back and fourth.
DR is only acceptable up to ISO 400, that´s right.
But the detail it resolves compared to the FS100 shots I´ve seen, Jesus....
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/11m6jegc/Bild8.jpg <- GH2
I don´t know if I want to trade in such drawbacks in resolution and aliasing for more DR and lowlight capabilities.
Holy crap. That is impressive. If they can hack the AF100 like that, it will make a lot of people happy they went with Panasonic.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
I'm going to tell you right now, if you are seeing all that aliasing, then the footage is NOT being interpreted properly. I've viewed this footage with a multitude of programs at 1:1 and I too see the aliasing in CS5, but then in other programs, it is VERY VERY clean as I would expect. EVERY technical review of the camera talks about how clean the aliasing is on this camera. It's there, but it is VERY minor.
I've used the GH2 first hand and can tell you, in real world situations, the GH2 aliases more than the AF100. Me and another user who owned the GH2 did these tests together, as I own an AF100, and it was clear that the GH2 DEFINITELY suffers from luminance aliasing on high spatial frequency. The most extreme case was fins on an AC unit. It was really bad. The AF100 had no problem with the fins. This is what we expected to see.
Yes, we also shot test charts that showed more aliasing on the AF100, but if you actually also look at color charts, you find out that the GH2 has some serious issues with different color aliasing, not the same as the 60D mind you, I am not talking about chroma characteristics. We are not sure why and Barry Green has tried to figure out why this is. Panasonic has done something different with the AF100 and for normal shooting, they've done an amazing job. In everything I have shot so far, I've not seen ANY aliasing or moire off the AF100 that I detected.
I don't see ANYTHING about the GH2 footage that looks superior to the FS100 footage. The FS100 has higher sensitivity, higher dynamic range, and higher actual resolution. The GH2 is amazingly sharp looking, but after the alias tests we did, I wasn't sold on buying one. Bricks still can affect it pretty easily and I cannot stand that anymore.
Given this was a pre-production model, it is true we don't know what to expect. And why this footage has problems in some editors and not others, could be a bug in the pre-production model and something it is flagging in the footage. But it DEFINITELY goes against the tests I have read that were actually very controlled.
CS5 by default is using half-resolution for playback. Try changing it to full, should remove the "aliasing".
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
It's not that, I already tried it. Both pause and playback are set to full quality. It's very strange. In VLC it looks perfect. That said, I am going to try and determine why it's doing this. I'm also going to transcode with clipwrap and see if it looks okay in Premiere then.
Very very weird!
I had the NX5 and that´s NXCAM just as the FS100. Never had problems in Vegas. I mean, if a Sony NLE doesn´t interpret the footage from a Sony cam correctly...
That´s all pretty fishy to me. Let´s wait until the camera is out.
Edit: In VLC I see the aliasing too. Can you see the aliasing in the still I posted from 00005.MTS?
All native MTS Files I watched definitely look a lot softer than GH2 footage. I really hope that´s because of a "faulty" playback
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
I looked at your footage and at 1:1 I do not see aliasing in the location that you have the red arrow pointing. When I zoom into that ledge, I see what I would expect, and that is, it looks similar to what you get when you draw anti-aliased lines in photoshop which is what it should look like. And it DEFINITELY does not look anything like what a Canon APS-C sensor would do to that edge! 
That edge would be blocky and have red and blue chroma elements on both sides of it depending on how well in focus it was. One thing I know very well is my 7D and I am VERY familiar with how bad the aliasing can be. I think a lot of people don't realize just how horrible it is on high contrast slanted edges, but when I have done my VFX work with footage, I have to deal with it all the time (well, that was until I bought the AF100).
Even more strange, you should see the aliasing I get in Premiere, it is REALLY bad. Something is definitely wrong with how Premiere is handling the footage. Given this is a pre-production model, it could be as simple as flags being interpreted from the footage. I've had this problem with AF100 AVCHD footage and colorspace flags.
I too have looked at a lot of FS100 footage that people have provided and some of it has softness to it, some of it has been pretty sharp to me. None of it of course being as sharp as the F3 footage which is just amazing. I definitely understand what people mean about the GH2 footage being sharp. Whatever they did, they've struck a good balance between sharpness and amplifying the aliasing. However, in my experience with the GH2, I've made it alias without a lot of effort on parallel lines in the shot. And when it does alias, it stands out (although NOT Canon stand out!)
The biggest issue is a lot of these people had the camera for a day or a few hours and most of them did not spend a lot of time tweaking the settings, or even checking them. Also, who knows what else could be the issue? Pre-production is always a bit nefarious. That said, I will have my FS100 in a few weeks hopefully (shipping end of May) so I'll be able to do some testing of it myself. Even if it ends up being this level of detail, I am fine with that. For me the cleanliness of the image is AMAZING.
That edge would be blocky and have red and blue chroma elements on both sides of it depending on how well in focus it was. One thing I know very well is my 7D and I am VERY familiar with how bad the aliasing can be. I think a lot of people don't realize just how horrible it is on high contrast slanted edges, but when I have done my VFX work with footage, I have to deal with it all the time (well, that was until I bought the AF100).Even more strange, you should see the aliasing I get in Premiere, it is REALLY bad. Something is definitely wrong with how Premiere is handling the footage. Given this is a pre-production model, it could be as simple as flags being interpreted from the footage. I've had this problem with AF100 AVCHD footage and colorspace flags.
I too have looked at a lot of FS100 footage that people have provided and some of it has softness to it, some of it has been pretty sharp to me. None of it of course being as sharp as the F3 footage which is just amazing. I definitely understand what people mean about the GH2 footage being sharp. Whatever they did, they've struck a good balance between sharpness and amplifying the aliasing. However, in my experience with the GH2, I've made it alias without a lot of effort on parallel lines in the shot. And when it does alias, it stands out (although NOT Canon stand out!)
The biggest issue is a lot of these people had the camera for a day or a few hours and most of them did not spend a lot of time tweaking the settings, or even checking them. Also, who knows what else could be the issue? Pre-production is always a bit nefarious. That said, I will have my FS100 in a few weeks hopefully (shipping end of May) so I'll be able to do some testing of it myself. Even if it ends up being this level of detail, I am fine with that. For me the cleanliness of the image is AMAZING.