NEW XLH1's...Finally

milvid said:
Here are the 2 new Canon XL-H1's

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Sticking-with-HDV-Unveils-XL-H1S-and-XL-H1A-34876.htm

What do you all think?
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This pre-emptive announcement seems to suggest that Canon isn't prepared to deviate from their non-competitive playbook which has been predictably dictating their reserved course of action since showing up late to the HD party.

I do like the upgraded glass, and the addition of the comparatively lower priced XL H1A, but I don't know if they will effectively measure up to the competition when we see what's presented at NAB.
In fact, with the new price-drop of the Panny HPX500, Canon may find it a little difficult to move any of those 9 grand XL H1s.

It should be understood that with the addition of a third-party external tapless recording device, Canon will still maintain some level of appeal among the masses desiring such an option, but without a cohesively formulated all-in-one solution for a low-cost, high performance, tapeless camera out of the box, they leave the door open yet again for somebody else to pave the way for innovation and receive all the attention.
 
I loves me some Canon still cameras but this particular HDV update feels about two years too late. Also agree with Digi- the HPX500 is now just under $10K and gives you 100 Mbit DVCPROHD, 2/3" chips and full ENG lenses, not too mention it's solid state.

The Sony EX1 and Panny HVX200 are cheaper and more capable- i.e. 1080 recording and variable frame rates. And that's what's already shipping. Who knows what new stuff they'll deliver next week and then there's always the Red Scarlet which promises to rewrite the whole game. So, at $6K this is an interesting b-camera but at nearly $10K it's DOA. Unless you are just married to the idea of recording your digital signal to a tape rather than to a flash card, which seems to be Canon's mantra...

-Noah
 
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The only good thing to write about is the lower priced XL H1A. If you already have the XL H1 then there is no need to upgrade.
 
Wow! And I say that in disbelief. This was the cheapest move ever. They simply didn't want to spend anymore money on anything new. I can understand that but the pricing is way to high for these minor updates. Canon have you heard of competition? Both cameras are priced 1K to high. At 5k that XL H1a is a great move but for 6k it is a yawn. The Sony EX is killing the market. Everyone waiting for NAB should stop waiting.
 
Is it, now? It seems lately what most people seem to care about in a HD cam is image quality. Sometimes we forget all other factors that makes a great cam : ergonomy, weight, functions, lens quality, sound recording options, etc..

Yeah, it's great to get the best HD image quality possible, but for some, it's not as important as others.

I, for one, tried the EX1 a couple of days and didn't really like it's ergonomy. I prefered the way the XL2 and XL-H1 handled. Oh, don't get me wrong, the images were gorgeous and low-light sensibility was stunning, but I struggled much more around the EX1's body than I did the first few times with an XL-H1. And I really hate where Sony put their component out (you have to raise the handgrip to have access to it, handheld's not as good as the H1). But it's a matter of taste, like most things here.

It's pretty much the same in still photography ; a Nikon D3 is not necessarily gonna make better photos than a Pentax K10D because it has more megapixels. The pro behind it must feel comfortable and at ease with its tool to create at its best.

Getting a lower-cost XL-H1 without HDI is a great idea for those who don't it, and I'm sure some will find the H1s interresting enough to upgrade. But I completely agree about the new Canons' prices : they could try to lower them and be more competitive. Their R&D didn't do as much as it did back when the XL-H1 got out, and Sony could use some competition to keep the bar up!

Now, what's Panasonic gonna deliver at NAB? ;-)
 
LAME. They just gave the year to sony. I told the canon reps they should have made an XL H1A from the beginning. They told me they're looking at tapeless options and....nothing.

Too little too late. The H1A may sell decently if the street price comes in at roughly 5500.

They could have at least reverse engineered the sony CF unit.
 
What a sad announcement, man.

I was hoping Canon had something incredible to give us. With the HPX bein 8k for a body, there's no reason to even look at the XL HDV cams aside from tape archival.
Sad.
 
I'd think the only reason someone would pick one of these up is if they already have some canon lens, but still, not the best value in my opinion.
 
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Gabriel Berube said:
Is it, now? It seems lately what most people seem to care about in a HD cam is image quality.
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Did you really say that. :) lol Quality is paramount. Your client is judging you on quality not ergonomics of the camera you use. Yep this is Sony's year. Blue Ray and the EX.
 
Thats a pretty hollow statement when you consider the actual quality footage they will be seeing can count on the other features brought up. If you can't hold the thing properly, you get nice quality shaky footage. Other examples can be explained but even if the client sees the end product, the camera itself and your ability to use it definitely has an impact on that...even if the actual image quality is great.
 
A bit disappointed... But lets not forget that this is the HDV camera, resolution wise, to beat among the competition.

Features done with XL-h1 have been sold to major distributors by fairly big amount of money (I remember one sold for 1.5 million USD). It is a camera that is also used by major Asian multi million dollar Productions.(One in particular, a Horror movie, I've seen in the editing stage in person-it looked simply spectacular- I had it mistaken for film. Of course, it had fairly heavy and expensive post- production on it)

However, with the HPX at 7999-without lens, but you could get a 35mm adapter and an excelent used SD lens to complement the body (folks at the HPX forum say there's no perceivable difference between the CAC HD lens of the HPX lens bundle and a good SD lens) - the XL H1 cameras really do seem like a hard sell nowadays...
 
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Canon needs to put their still camera people into the video department. Canon is very aggressive with their SLR product (Canon 5d, 1d mk III ...etc) but they are very proactive when it comes to their video camera division.
 
I gotta agree with some of the guys here.

Having several Canon, Panasonic & JVC cameras in my fleet, the Canon HDV series offer the best quality image in the 1/3" arena by far with the XH-A1 being at the top of the heap for me personally as an event shooter. However, ergonomics wise, the XL series' faux shoulder-mount with the unorthodox placement of controls leaves it miles behind it's competitors.

Ideally I would love to have a camera that has Canon's internals but with the superb ergonomics & handling of the JVC pro-HD cameras.

Actually the XL-H1A looks the same as an XL-H1 with the lens off the XH-A1 series.

Since Panasonic left us event shooters high & dry with the HVX and expensive P2 work-flow, I switched to Canon and will probably get another XH-A1, but then, I might wait to see if Panasonic is going to offer something for us event shooters at NAB that is better than that Fisher Price toy HMC700 thing they announced earlier.

Cheers,
 
Guys, what a reactions!

What where you expecting? Canon is always later then the other parties. But their implementation of HDV is simply the best out there. And that has not changed. And for some of you tape might be old and not good anymore, for many of us it is still the most economics and user-friendly way of capturing video. I do like the "tapeless" concept but it is far from perfect at this moment and has many shortcomings from expensive media to complex and dangerous archiving (you really have to create a good systems otherwise you have a big problem. A forgotten back-up and failing harddisk and everything is gone. For good. Canon has updated the Canon XL-H1 and included a cheaper alternative without HD-SDI which most amateurs will never use/need. They did the same with the XL-1 so this is an expected development. I think they made some decent improvements and forgot some other things (i.e. better lcd/viewfinder).

You will see the XL-H2 next year. These products have a 3 year productcycle and the XL-H1 has onlly been out for a mere two years. And I don't think this is bad. And tapeless? We have the Firestores already and I am sure that at NAB 2008 we will see tapeless version of those devices like the Convergent Designs Flash XDR which records uncompressed to Compact Flash Cards (much cheaper then SxS or P2). And I think for the time being that is the best option until the dust settles and standard arrive for working with tapeless media and archiving it in a safe and secure way.

And you seriously cannot compare the XL-H1 with a HPX where you need expensive 2/3" lenses which will add to the cost (great camera though).

And finally, the Sony PMW-EX1 is the worst designed camera I ever used. Flimsy buttons, strange button placement and very bad ergonomics. So no, the PMW-EX1 is far from perfect for me. I also do not like to have a big gap right through the middle of my camera. What will happen when you shoot in a dusty environment?

I think Canon has done the right thing by updating their line until they come up with the true successor to the Canon XL-H1 which I think will be revolutionary.

People should spend more time shooting and less time complaining about new gear. No camera is perfect and there is always a new model around the corner but the best professionals do not change gear each year because only once you master your gear, you can be truly creative. People with a XL-H1 should have no problems with waiting another year as it still delivers some of the finest HD(V) images out there.
 
This may sound trivial to some but the biggest dissapointment for me is no HDMI port. I was really excited about pairing this cam with the new Cineform recorder and staying away from HDV.
 
Mark Williams said:
This may sound trivial to some but the biggest dissapointment for me is no HDMI port. I was really excited about pairing this cam with the new Cineform recorder and staying away from HDV.
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Well, if you go for the $9000 version, the addition of embedded timecode and audio makes recording the HDSDI much more practical, and you could then use the Convergent Designs solid state recorder. Of course, at that point you're up to $14,000 and it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you could get a complete HPX500 kit for less.
 
Yeah it seems that Canon has past on there sales of the H1s to the HPX500 and the H1a to the Sony EX1. Don't get me wrong I can see alot of educational environments picking up the XL H1a for the look and the quality but overall it is really to little to late. Drop the prices by 1K Canon!
 
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