New User ( Canon t2I ) Looking for some opinions regarding gear

V

vision_filmz

Carbonite Member
I have been using Dslr for a couple of months and have finally decided to come online and ask some questions. I am looking into buying some sort of dolly, jib or fly cam. I work as a 2nd camera man/ assistant on Music Videos and I would like to bring some cool camera movements to the small budget videos I am working on.

If you could only choose one of these which would it be and why?

Flycam Nano


Camera Skater Slider Dual Dolly RS (tm) with 3' TRACK!




*JibOne PRO 8 Ft Camera Crane Jib arm + Universal Head*


Ideally I would like to buy all of these but can only afford one :embarasse, please help me and great forums by the way
 
welcome! and congrats on your purchase!

I'd say the Flycam. You can do a lot more with a stabilizer than a crane or slider.
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im not sure id agree with that. especially for a new user. a "stabilzer" requires a LOT of technique practice to use effectively.
and i think for music videos. you will get more style-mileage with a jib or slider.

HOWEVER, the slider and jib links youve posted from ebay are both pieces of junk.
i wouldnt take either of them if you gave them to me. they are both cheap and from the looks, poorly executed versions of other existing designs.

you wont get into a decent slider or jib for less than about $500 or so
 
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wgzn said:
you wont get into a decent slider or jib for less than about $500 or so
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I disagree as far as the slider goes. The DIY version is perfectly suitable for around $200 +/-. I built one and have gotten great results with it, and it's the exact same materials as the Glidetrack slider. Plus, by building it yourself, you can make it as fancy or as simple as you like.
 
wgzn said:
welcome! and congrats on your purchase!

im not sure id agree with that. especially for a new user. a "stabilzer" requires a LOT of technique practice to use effectively.
and i think for music videos. you will get more style-mileage with a jib or slider.

HOWEVER, the slider and jib links youve posted from ebay are both pieces of junk.
i wouldnt take either of them if you gave them to me. they are both cheap and from the looks, poorly executed versions of other existing designs.

you wont get into a decent slider or jib for less than about $500 or so
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Sorry you feel that way. I went to website cheesycam and they all say these are very good for budget people. I know this is not the best, but I am just starting and want to learn so I don't want to spend more money. The slider looks really nice, here is some footage
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...with-my-Canon-T2i..-love-this-rig!!&p=2266670

Now I am not saying you are not correct, but this one user says he likes it so maybe I can have the same luck as well?

As of now I am leaning towards the dolly, but I want the fly cam nano as well as I can use that a lot when following an artist through a house, street, etc. Thank you for the help, I am only learning little by little
 
but I want the fly cam nano as well as I can use that a lot when following an artist through a house, street, etc.
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can you? have you ever used one? the hand-held stabilizers (or really ANY gimbal based stabilizer) requires that you sort of re-learn how to walk in order to use them effectively. but do what you want. its your money. and your end product. im just sharing with you what i see and what ive learned (the hard way) over the years ; )

and that crane you posted. it's just a cheaply built version of this:
http://www.kesslercrane.com/product-p/100016.htm
from the photo. the ebay version appears to have all the weights hung on one side of the rig. im no physicist, but i cant see how that can be a good thing...?
additionally, the construction looks kind of slight compared to the one it mimics - which is already slight to begin with...

but the prices are really cheap. so if they dont work. you havent broken your bank (hopefully)
but if they dont deliver the results you want. then it is just a waste of money. and i say why blow $200 on something that works ok, when you can save up another $300 and buy something that works WELL.
 
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wgzn said:
can you? have you ever used one? the hand-held stabilizers (or really ANY gimbal based stabilizer) requires that you sort of re-learn how to walk in order to use them effectively. but do what you want. its your money. and your end product. im just sharing with you what i see and what ive learned (the hard way) over the years ; )

and that crane you posted. it's just a cheaply built version of this:
http://www.kesslercrane.com/product-p/100016.htm
from the photo. the ebay version appears to have all the weights hung on one side of the rig. im no physicist, but i cant see how that can be a good thing...?
additionally, the construction looks kind of slight compared to the one it mimics - which is already slight to begin with...

but ive only been shooting video for about 20 years so what do i know.
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You are coming off to me overly aggressive to me and I don't know why? I never said nor mentioned if these were the best tools, only what would be a suggestion from the ones posted. No one is denying your expertise and 20 years of experience, I am simply a young person in a new wave of film making with dslr. Many users around the net have said these tools are good, the purpose of this thread was NOT to talk about the build quality of these items. This is frustrating asking for help and someone like yourself just goes and knocks my idea. By your simple reasoning NO ONE would be using dslr for film/video because it is photo camera and many people dismissed it as an actual filming tool.

Finally I understand this is not the best and probably are imitation, but for now these will have to do. Not everyone has a lot of $$, so we have to start somewhere.
 
I went to website cheesycam and they all say these are very good for budget people
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youre relying on a website called "cheesycam" as your point of reference? thats your perrogative i guess ; )

and thats cool. go do what you feel comfortable with. but as i mentioned in another similar discussion. in nearly 20 years in the vid biz. i have found that more often than not. the people who think and act like "budget people" STAY budget people. again, im not saying my experience is the only outcome. just what ive seen. time and time again...
 
You are coming off to me overly aggressive to me and I don't know why?
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im not trying to, and i sincerely apologize if thats how im sounding. i often forget that there isnt a sarcasm filter online ; )

ive just thrown a LOT of money away on wasted crap over the years. and wish id had access to experienced info back when i got started.

i've also seen a LOT of young (or just young in the biz) people here and on other forums who go after all the bells and whistles. and buy cheap versions of them before they really know what they're doing. then complain that the gear doesn't work
 
wgzn said:
im not trying to, and i sincerely apologize if thats how im sounding. i often forget that there isnt a sarcasm filter online ; )

ive just thrown a LOT of money away on wasted crap over the years. and wish id had access to objective info back when i got started.

i've also seen a LOT of young (or just young in the biz) people here and on other forums who go after all the bells and whistles. and buy cheap versions of them before they really know what they're doing. then complain that the gear doesn't work
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Completely understand, this is now for learning and just to begin. Not so much a business , really for small projects helping out some local artist. I 100% understand this might not be the best or even good, but hopefully I can find some kind of usefulness as I really do not have anything. At the very worst I can buy the slider and if it does not work I will sell and learn from experience. In life everyone must go through that path even though someone older than you tells you, you are wrong. :)
 
vision_filmz said:
I 100% understand this might not be the best or even good, but hopefully I can find some kind of usefulness as I really do not have anything. At the very worst I can buy the slider and if it does not work I will sell and learn from experience. In life everyone must go through that path even though someone older than you tells you, you are wrong. :)
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Just a few words of caution:

Buying cheap now, for equipment that may or may not perform up to par, will leave you little re-sale value later for when you want to upgrade. Buy it right the first time, and you'll be set for a good, long while. The silver lining is that there are some budget-minded solutions out there that will get you in a good starting place, and will last a while. Again, take a look at the DIY version of the slider. It's cheaper than a Glidetrack with the same materials. It's not that much more expensive than the Dual Dolly, but will outperform and outlast it.

As for a Glidecam/Steadicam/Flycam stabilizer... they take tons of practice to get right. These are not out-of-the-box tools that one can simply set up and run. The folks who get paid the big bucks to use them spend literally a hundred hours or more practicing before even setting foot on a professional set/location. Add to that the challenge of a hand-held stabilizer, which takes massive amounts of forearm stamina. Try to go for more than about 5 minutes and, most likely, you're spent. This is why the best rigs have vests for support.

I would make sure that you invest in one good piece, rather than three questionable kits (though I know you're trying to pick one of the three at this point). The first and best thing you can have for your camera is a solid tripod with a fluid head. After that, the slider is probably the wiser investment since it has a better price:performance ratio. Considering the skill and stamina required for a hand-held stabilizer, that's not the best thing to get right now. And a jib is all well and good, but those can be rented when needed and without breaking the bank.

Take Internet-based praise on these cheap kits with a grain of salt. Some of them are padded by unscrupulous merchants. Much of it comes from amateurs who don't know better, and I'm not trying to place labels here but once you've worked with something better there's a high probability of buyer's remorse for the lesser gear (been there, done that).
 
Take Internet-based praise on these cheap kits with a grain of salt. Some of them are padded by unscrupulous merchants. Much of it comes from amateurs who don't know better, and I'm not trying to place labels here but once you've worked with something better there's a high probability of buyer's remorse for the lesser gear (been there, done that).
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+100 on that. ive gone through it all in my life, orchestra, band, bmx, skateboarding, tennis, fine art, guitar, drums, etc... if you get the cheapest thing you can. its will be MUCH harder achieving decent results.

i remember a series of $150 bmx bikes i bought as a kid. and i could never quite get to where i wanted to be. so i saved up my money one summer and bought a better, lighter bike that cost about 4x what i was used to paying. and it all got SOOOO much easier.

so its become my practice, to "buy once. buy well"
 
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this is now for learning and just to begin
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the best way to begin and learn is to get a camera and learn how to use it inside and out. before you go spending money on a bunch of cheap (or even high-priced) gimmicks and gadgets.

there was a guy here a few months ago. who clearly had only a basic grasp on how to shoot video. but he kept posting "should i buy this" or "should i buy that". we all advised him not to buy anything and just learn what he was doing. well, he nearly always bought the cheapo option. then hed post footage that he either didnt know sucked. or he did know it sucked, and wondered why XYZcamsliderjib didnt work like it does in the movies...
 
Thank you everyone for the replies and I completely understand, but I see no reason at all why that skater dolly on rails would be bad.

Indifocus sells a cheap slider for like $100 and I know many people gave it average reviews but were able to at least give some descent results. Now if you see the link to the video I posted that works fine for me, if it's not considered pro then ok, it looks good to me.

The purpose of this thread was not to mention once again the quality of these products, I think many videographers here have forgotten what can be achieved with imagination and tools.

This thread has turned for the worst, good bye
 
vision_filmz said:
The purpose of this thread was not to mention once again the quality of these products, I think many videographers here have forgotten what can be achieved with imagination and tools.

This thread has turned for the worst, good bye
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Sorry you feel that way. It's obvious that you'd made up your mind on what to buy before creating this thread, so why ask advice? Imagination and tools are all fine and dandy, but getting the right tools means less time wrestling to get the tools to perform and more time putting imagination to work.
 
I see no reason at all why that skater dolly on rails would be bad.
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thats a pretty non-standard way to build a slider. there are a lot of surfaces in contact at any given time. and id fear that it may:
1. be noisy
2. be prone to binding.

i really hate that you feel like we're peeing on your picnic. i think can speak for everyone saying that were just trying to help you get he most out of your dollar. AND YOUR CAMERA.

you can get a decent shot or two here and there out of just about any cobbled-together kludge you can find... so far you have a vote for the stabilizer a vote for the jib and one for the slider. follow whatever advice your gut tells you to : )
 
Wgzn

Seems like you did not read nor comprehend my first post. This is for Music Videos where sound would not matter, so your "noisy" comment makes no sense. Second if you have never used this item how can you say the slider is prone to binding? As a matter of fact judging from all of the videos I seen posted it works great, as a slider + skater dolly which in fact this is. Do you have a website with followers and people who support your vision? CheesyCam is one of the best places on the net for very informative posts and shares excellent budget tools with the community. Further more I seen a recent post of yours stating that you do not work creatively and are more with restrictions in your line of work. Think about what that means for a second.


C2v My advice was regarding the 3 items I posted, if you have never used them how can you say they are not good? Why would you even say there are better items out there? Heck Im more than sure there are many many cameras better than a t2i, but budget constraints and what it is able to do allows me and many users to use them. Honestly I just see things different in life and if I paid attention to everyone who said you can't do this or that I would never achieve anything.

Yes there is better, yes this is not the best, but buyinf an item that only cost $150-$200+ is not something that is going to kill me and I can learn in the process. Everyone who has used that dual dolly rs and flycam nano has said nothing but good things about it, I may or may not like it, but that wasn't the purpose of this thread. All I really wanted to know was more about camera movement, and unless someone is really shooting movies or music videos and using these kind of movements I feel that their opinion really holds no weight. Finally when I said goodbye it was because this thread will keep going back and forth, at the end of the day for someone with a budget and minimal money you have to start somewhere and maybe while not very good something is better than nothing and you can turn that somehting into greatness


:/
 
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