New To Audio? - Read This First Please
- Thread starter Jeremy Ordan
- Start date
Richard Crowley
Veteran
You actually have TWO questions there.
The first (implied) question is whether a Zoom H2 (or similar one-piece small recorders) will do an adequate job picking up your audio either with the built-in mics or with whatever kind of external microphone (undisclosed) you will be using. Since there are several things we don't know, you would have to be the one to answer that question, or else provide additional details for people here to respond to.
The second question is whether you can use "double system" sound, where the audio is recorded on a separate device. From first-hand experience, as well as general consensus on other production audio forums, it is likely that this is a good solution. This assumes that your workflow (editing process) allows a point where you can "lay back" a separate audio track (from the H2, etc.) into your editing system and sync the audio and video together.
Most all modern video NLE (non-linear editing) systems make this rather easy to do quickly and successfully. For example, when I do multi-camera productions of musical events, I typically lay in the final mix of the sound track into my video editing application, and then I insert the video track(s) and slide them back or forward on the timeline until the video is synced with the audio. Note that the audio should be the "master track" because it is easier to tweak the video without annoying glitches than it is to tweak the audio.
Richard Crowley
Veteran
Yes, indeed people who care about their audio are booming (or using body mics). It is pretty safe to say that less than 1% of everything you have ever seen on TV or in the movie theater was shot with a camera-mounted microphone.
Consider that body mics (whether wired or wireless) are a very cost-effective alternative to booming where shooting conditions allow. A $25 clip-on lav or headset mic from Radio Shack used properly will outperform a $2500 microphone when it is too far away.
Richard Crowley
Veteran
No question that Shoeps is a top-of-the heap brand (along with DPA, AKG, Sennheiser, Sanken). Several Shoeps models are standards of the film and video production industry as well as being highly regarded in the studio music recording industry. However their prices are right in line with their top-tier reputation. The Oktava microphones (like the MK012A) are very cost-effective microphones with similar characteristics, but priced for the rest of us.
You can't really create a list of mics that are good at various distances, because distance is only one of several important factors. Interior/exterior, and ambient noise levels are at least as important (and in many cases even MORE important) than mere distance.
No, phantom power has no material effect on the "usable range" of any microphone. The purpose of the circuitry in the microphone is to change the output impedance into something that can be sent 100s of feet over standard microphone cable. For example, condenser microphones (conventional or electret-biased) have an extremely high output impedance. It is difficult to get the signal from the microphone capsule even a few millimeters to the amplifier without using extraordinary measures to prevent noise, leakage, etc. But once the signal has been through the microphone circuitry (which requires the phantom power) it can be sent 100s (or even 1000s) of feet to the mixer, recorder, or camera.
The usable range of a microphone is a function of its directional characteristics, its self-noise floor, and how well it is protected from ambient noise (like wind, etc.)
Richard Crowley
Veteran
Note that the recommended low-cost shotgun microphone (Audio Technica AT55) is discontinued. Its apparent successor is the ATR6550 which appears to have around the same (or even lower) street price as the original AT55. I don't have any first-hand experience with either of these models so I don't know how the performance of the ATR6550 compares to the old AT55?
Painter's poles are a good low-cost substitute for professional mic booms, but one must be careful when trying to secure the microphone to them. The threads on the painters poles are dramatically different and completely incompatible with the typical microphone clip threads (5/8-27 in North America, and 3/8-20 in Europe).
Several people are now selling adapters that one can simply thread onto the end of a painters pole and then screw the mic clip into the end. There are often some available on eBay, and several other more permanent vendors such as this one:
http://sites.google.com/site/filmmotogear/boom-adapter (they have two versions)
Note also that the kinds of adapters one needs to get from the microphone into the mic input of the camcorder varies dramatically, depending on exactly which microphone and which camcorder one has. Using serial adapters (such as XLR to 1/4 inch and then 1/4 inch to 3.5mm mini-phone) is NOT recommended for several reasons such as cost, inconvenience and increased modes of failure. There are places like www.markertek.com and www.redco.com who have audio adapter cables from most anything to most anything else, either in stock or custom-made. I make all my own cables and adapters, but I have recommended these vendors to others who have been pleased with the products.
If one is up to making their own audio adapters, I have a web page of information on DIY here: http://www.rcrowley.com/CamAdapt.htm
Richard Crowley
Veteran
DISARMAMENT! - Shotguns aren't everything.
DISARMAMENT! - Shotguns aren't everything.
Great kudos to Jeremy for taking on the task of assembling an impressive range of recommended sound kits. I'm sure many people have been helped by having such a concise collection of good advice.
However, note that body mics are widely used in both TV and film production in situations where even the best shotgun mic and the most experienced boom operator would find impossible.
It cannot be emphasized strongly enough that even the very best microphone on the planet will fail miserably if you can't get it close enough (given the ambient situation.) Even an inexpensive $25 clip-on lav or headset microphone from Radio Shack will dramatically outperform the most expensive Shoeps, DPA or Sennheiser microphone if you can't get it close enough. One cannot violate the laws of physics and acoustics (such as the inverse-square law) and expect to get away with it.
OTOH, note that inexpensive wireless mics are more trouble than they are worth. Over on the rec.arts.movies.production.sound newsgroup (where many working industry professionals participate almost daily), the general consensus is that a wireless mic setup (microphone, transmitter and receiver) that costs less than $400 is very likely to be an unreliable, cheap, plastic, disposable toy. Many of us have a cardboard box in the basement where such broken plastic toy wireless mics are unceremoniously interred after dying on the job. The r.a.m.p.s pros have frequently recommended something like the the Sennheiser Evolution series as the least-expensive reasonably-performing wireless mic systems.
Note further that here in North America, since the great Analog to Digital migration for broadcast television, all wireless mics that operate in the 700-800 MHz range are no longer legal to use. Those bands have been auctioned off for billions of $$$ for other kinds of use which will make wireless microphones persona-non-grata. (And besides, Obama is spending those $$$ faster than he can rake it in.)
DISARMAMENT! - Shotguns aren't everything.
Great kudos to Jeremy for taking on the task of assembling an impressive range of recommended sound kits. I'm sure many people have been helped by having such a concise collection of good advice.
However, note that body mics are widely used in both TV and film production in situations where even the best shotgun mic and the most experienced boom operator would find impossible.
It cannot be emphasized strongly enough that even the very best microphone on the planet will fail miserably if you can't get it close enough (given the ambient situation.) Even an inexpensive $25 clip-on lav or headset microphone from Radio Shack will dramatically outperform the most expensive Shoeps, DPA or Sennheiser microphone if you can't get it close enough. One cannot violate the laws of physics and acoustics (such as the inverse-square law) and expect to get away with it.
OTOH, note that inexpensive wireless mics are more trouble than they are worth. Over on the rec.arts.movies.production.sound newsgroup (where many working industry professionals participate almost daily), the general consensus is that a wireless mic setup (microphone, transmitter and receiver) that costs less than $400 is very likely to be an unreliable, cheap, plastic, disposable toy. Many of us have a cardboard box in the basement where such broken plastic toy wireless mics are unceremoniously interred after dying on the job. The r.a.m.p.s pros have frequently recommended something like the the Sennheiser Evolution series as the least-expensive reasonably-performing wireless mic systems.
Note further that here in North America, since the great Analog to Digital migration for broadcast television, all wireless mics that operate in the 700-800 MHz range are no longer legal to use. Those bands have been auctioned off for billions of $$$ for other kinds of use which will make wireless microphones persona-non-grata. (And besides, Obama is spending those $$$ faster than he can rake it in.)
LuckyNumber7
New member
Thank you for a general idea on where I need to start with a sound kit ! :thumbup:
Hawk Teflon
Veteran
This is all great information. However, I know a lot of this is dated. How much of this is still accurate for the dollar? Is there better equipment for the same price, or even cheaper now? Technology has come a ways in 4 years. I know I'm asking a lot, but thought I would at least check since this is the "Read This First" post.
Lliam Worthington
Active member
Hello everyone, or G'day as the case maybe,
Firstly I'd like to to give a big shout out to everyone who regularly contributes their expertise to this amazing site. I don't think i can say enough about the invaluable global resource that you have all collectively created. The huge amounts of knowledge and insight now so readily accessed blows my mind. I remember trying to put together a kit to shoot my first short film 13 years ago and how I would call shops and network with film makers to try and gather advice on equipment while ordering rental catalogue's to try and get a gauge of what I might hope to use, rent or buy. This is all well and good of course, but living in a regional area of Australia what I can now learn with a day of dedicated searching on forums and youtube etc would have taken me weeks at the very least, if even possible. In short I have gained so much knowledge from reading these forums and I hope one day to be able to contribute and give back to the community with the same good will and knowledge that so many others have shown and has benefited me so far. So thank you all.
Usually with all the information already out there I manage to answer my own questions, but as I have now spent many many hours researching I would greatly appreciate some experienced advice to help make my final decisions as I endeavour to put together the sound solution for the micro budget Indi feature I am directing/shooting.
I know *Groan* it's such a familiar and sometimes painful story... and even though it's covered in the Q&A, I'll say it now also, that yes, I would love to attach a professional sound recordist to the project. But unfortunately my budget, shoot location and schedule make it highly unlikely in this instance. It's not impossible so I'm already trying, but it's unlikely so I am forming my plan B which has a high possibility of becoming my plan A.
I've done a lot of homework and I believe I have a fairly good idea of the key sound equipment options that are within my budget, but as said some feedback and a little advice would be greatly appreciated in hlping me reach the best decisions.
I also thought I better double post - first in the "read first sticky" as this is what it seemed initially intended for and you are requested to do... But as it seems to have become defunct and outdated in the last couple of years (a shame for such a great and useful thread) as a precaution I have also posted my own thread (which could be the one your reading right now) to ensure I don't get missed. However Mods if my post in sticky is receiving much feedback, perhaps you could bump my other thread to the sticky?
Ok, down to it then... I wrote up my response to the excellent questions once posed by Jeremy for the benefit of all...
Note: I am shooting on a 7D in case anyone wonders.
1. What is the budget that we are working with (either immediately or over the next few months)
My film is micro budget, so my sound budget is unfortunately only "supposed" to be $2,500. I know, I know. But I have just secured a Rode NTG 3 today for the shoot for free - and have a fair bit of XLR cable so that helps a little. Also as I will still have to pay shipping and taxes as well on top as AUS prices on gear are just absurd (killing our local stores - they just can't compete) it will be closer to $3k in actuality I am spending - regardless though please still let me know if you believe a couple hundred could make the difference for a significantly more optimal gear config and I'll just have to find it somehow. Alternatively, hey, if I can save a few hundred with no significant difference in your opinion, then also let me know.
Also due to the content of my film, I really have no practical use for lavs at all so that I guess helps a little as well compared to what might be a more typically necessary film kit.
Now please know, I do understand and appreciate that 3k odd is very low to be purchasing sound equipment with any hope of producing sound quality good enough for a potential theatrical release. Especially if I can't attach a pro. I've read many such posts on this. And I understand their will be shortfalls/compromises, but much as a good DP will likely tell me that the Canon EF primes I have are probably too soft for the big screen, where my tools and budget fall short, it's going to be up to my story and creativity to cover the shortfall and determine the overall worth of my film, FWIW I'm excited by this challenge. But I'm of course being as diligent as possible to try and stretch my budget to get as much quality as I can into the production.
2. What type of films are you doing (short dramatic films, feature dramatic, documentary, interviews)
Feature.
3. Are your locations PRIMARILY interiors or exteriors?
95% of my shoot is exteriors in pretty rugged conditions - ocean/reefs/beach. As such I will be working/recording in hot sun/high temperatures with humidity -- on the beach and out on the water booming over swimmers and surfers. (This was a key reason behind my choice of a 7D and I was looking at getting a Rode NTG3, but then managed to find a friend who who already had one and owed me a favour.
So I primarily be recording dialogue and ambience beds outdoors - as well as some foley and fx.
Interior wise - there is only a dialogue scene in a four wheel drive and a handful of lines in a noisy part scene in a house.
The frenetic nature of the party I am not concerned with because I can be creative in mixing and the dialogue is secondary to the actors physical interaction and body language in these scenes.
I am however wondering if I can get away with the NTG3 for the 4 wheel drive scene as I've heard I could as it's more forgiving with its wider pattern, but I can also have some dooners and pillows in there as it's a road trip scene which could help. But if it's still too ill advised, I will look to borrow or hire for this scene so recommendations as to what and why would be much appreciated.
4. Will you be shooting outside at all with sound?
Yes, as said 95% will be exteriors. The dialogue in relative terms, could be considered sparse. This is not a talking heads pic. But as such i will in turn be somewhat more reliant on good ambience, foley and the overall sound design/FX as a result.
5. What level of experience do you have with sound?
I've been "around" sound a fair bit, have worked with some talented pro's, and I have also boomed, recorded and mixed in post for my own shorts a while back and done a little bit of foley and effects for them.
But that's all been of a pretty amateur level, so for all intents and purposes with this gear and sound in general I'm nothing more than a fairly switched on and well researched noob.
This is of course of concern to me. And so logically I have concerns about the sophistication of the equipment I might be purchasing and getting the best out it If I don't have a pro onboard.
But you can only do what you can.
6. What is the outlet you are hoping to have with the projects (DVD release for profit, web distribution, theatrical)
Theatrical via a festival pathway. If I fail I will be looking at the other ancillary markets.
7. Is this purchase for a specific project or are you looking to purchase a kit for general future projects?
Specific project. If the film makes it into the black I would be looking to upgrade my kit or sell it as I move onto the next project. But if it does not, then I can at least use my kit and or hire it out to help raise further funds for my next project.
8. Why do you feel that it is beneficial for you to buy sound gear versus hiring a professional (or networking for free with a professional) to do your audio?
Rates in Sydney are generally between 300 - 450 per day without gear - 600+ with for a pro. 3k might still be enough of a starting point to try and negotiate something with somebody -
but I am 2 hours from sydney where the for hire pros can be found and I will be operating in remote locations on a very difficult schedule where I will need to be able to either power ahead or cancel at a moments notice
So hiring a professional is looking pretty unlikely for me. Regardless I am still hoping I may be able to get some experienced help. But I certainly can't bank on it, so I'm looking at how to best adapt to the situation and move forward. At least there are some pro's to having some gear of my own and the more I learn about any aspect of production the better a director I find I become.
9. Will you have a dedicated person to run sound (even a friend to hold a boompole)?
As above - what i'm thinking is that I can hopefully find a talented and keen film student or former student still looking for some field experience, who ideally might be able to augment my gear.
My worse case is I will have around 7 months to test and learn my gear while studying and coming on line for advice etc while I line up some film making friends to help out on the shoot.
10 Does static in the background bother you. When you watch DVXfest films did you notice how on some films there is this white noise and then it disappears? Do you notice good sound?
Yes. Especially when it's my OWN! Though I'm sure not anywhere near to the degree of actual pro's. You don't know what you don't know... if you know what I mean.
Ok, so based on my research, release goals, and my particular projects requirements, here are my thoughts on equipment...
SOUND EQUIPMENT LIST
* Ty Ford Audio & Video Book: Audio Bootcamp Field Guide 4th Edition by Ty Ford $25
* Rode NTG-3 *Free*
* Gitzo 3560 - Six-Section Carbon Fiber Boompole (has length up to 4m as I'm going to need it. $315 (Anyone recommend a better option?)
Articulating boom would probably be most ideal - but too expensive.
* Sony MDR-7506 Circumaural Closed-Back Professional Monitor Headphone $83
* Rode Blimp - Complete Windshield and Suspension System $299[/COLOR]
TOTAL: $ 722
Key recorders I'm considering...
Sound Devices 702 - High-Resolution 2-Channel Compact Flash Field Recorder $1875
Fostex FR-2 LE - 2-Channel Compact Flash Field Recorder $600
Edirol / Roland R-44 Solid-State $995
Others I've considered
Marantz PMD661 Professional Portable Flash Field Recorder
HD P2
Sony PCM-D50
Tascam DR 100
Zoom h4n
Key Mixers I'm considering...
Sound Devices 302 $1295
Sound Devices Mixpre $665
(also investigated Juiced links)
My major thought is...
* As there are no situations that I need to set up multiple mics for... (truly) and I'm likely lacking a highly skilled technician, so simpler the better... so thinking forget about a mixer and instead just fork out for the quality 702 which should help me get good raw sound into post if we do a half decent job on set.
* Otherwise I could try to buy my 702 used and look to combine with a mixpre and still scrape inside my budget.
Or otherwise I would probably lean toward a combinations of...
*Mixpre with the Edirol R-44 or the Fostex FR-2 LE
Or although it doesn't make as much sense to me to do it this way round...
* Sound Devices 302 with the Edirol or Fostex.
* Unfortunately even used I don't think I could manage to get 302 & 702 and make my budget. never know your luck though.
*I would also need to spend on required cables and batteries etc.
Other issues :
* Timecode. As I am editing in FCP, from the recommendations I will be using plural eyes. I have read people successfully using the 7D's internal mic... But thinking I will still fork out for or borrow a cheap on camera mic unless someone can nominate a better solution. I'll run tests of course and if it's not working perfectly I will just go with a good old fashioned clapper approach.
*Once I have my ket equipment finalised - some advice on best cabling workflow etc would be hugely appreciated.
*Even advice on the best way to carry the kit would be very valuable to me, knowing that I wont be working with a cart.
Thanks so much in advance to anyone who offers their time and some help and for reading this massive post.
Best Wishes
Lliam Worthington
EDIT: Any new film makers who read this thread and are interested the responses/advice can be found on my thread "Grateful and well researched film maker seeks "sound" advice".
Firstly I'd like to to give a big shout out to everyone who regularly contributes their expertise to this amazing site. I don't think i can say enough about the invaluable global resource that you have all collectively created. The huge amounts of knowledge and insight now so readily accessed blows my mind. I remember trying to put together a kit to shoot my first short film 13 years ago and how I would call shops and network with film makers to try and gather advice on equipment while ordering rental catalogue's to try and get a gauge of what I might hope to use, rent or buy. This is all well and good of course, but living in a regional area of Australia what I can now learn with a day of dedicated searching on forums and youtube etc would have taken me weeks at the very least, if even possible. In short I have gained so much knowledge from reading these forums and I hope one day to be able to contribute and give back to the community with the same good will and knowledge that so many others have shown and has benefited me so far. So thank you all.
Usually with all the information already out there I manage to answer my own questions, but as I have now spent many many hours researching I would greatly appreciate some experienced advice to help make my final decisions as I endeavour to put together the sound solution for the micro budget Indi feature I am directing/shooting.
I know *Groan* it's such a familiar and sometimes painful story... and even though it's covered in the Q&A, I'll say it now also, that yes, I would love to attach a professional sound recordist to the project. But unfortunately my budget, shoot location and schedule make it highly unlikely in this instance. It's not impossible so I'm already trying, but it's unlikely so I am forming my plan B which has a high possibility of becoming my plan A.
I've done a lot of homework and I believe I have a fairly good idea of the key sound equipment options that are within my budget, but as said some feedback and a little advice would be greatly appreciated in hlping me reach the best decisions.
I also thought I better double post - first in the "read first sticky" as this is what it seemed initially intended for and you are requested to do... But as it seems to have become defunct and outdated in the last couple of years (a shame for such a great and useful thread) as a precaution I have also posted my own thread (which could be the one your reading right now) to ensure I don't get missed. However Mods if my post in sticky is receiving much feedback, perhaps you could bump my other thread to the sticky?
Ok, down to it then... I wrote up my response to the excellent questions once posed by Jeremy for the benefit of all...
Note: I am shooting on a 7D in case anyone wonders.
1. What is the budget that we are working with (either immediately or over the next few months)
My film is micro budget, so my sound budget is unfortunately only "supposed" to be $2,500. I know, I know. But I have just secured a Rode NTG 3 today for the shoot for free - and have a fair bit of XLR cable so that helps a little. Also as I will still have to pay shipping and taxes as well on top as AUS prices on gear are just absurd (killing our local stores - they just can't compete) it will be closer to $3k in actuality I am spending - regardless though please still let me know if you believe a couple hundred could make the difference for a significantly more optimal gear config and I'll just have to find it somehow. Alternatively, hey, if I can save a few hundred with no significant difference in your opinion, then also let me know.
Also due to the content of my film, I really have no practical use for lavs at all so that I guess helps a little as well compared to what might be a more typically necessary film kit.
Now please know, I do understand and appreciate that 3k odd is very low to be purchasing sound equipment with any hope of producing sound quality good enough for a potential theatrical release. Especially if I can't attach a pro. I've read many such posts on this. And I understand their will be shortfalls/compromises, but much as a good DP will likely tell me that the Canon EF primes I have are probably too soft for the big screen, where my tools and budget fall short, it's going to be up to my story and creativity to cover the shortfall and determine the overall worth of my film, FWIW I'm excited by this challenge. But I'm of course being as diligent as possible to try and stretch my budget to get as much quality as I can into the production.
2. What type of films are you doing (short dramatic films, feature dramatic, documentary, interviews)
Feature.
3. Are your locations PRIMARILY interiors or exteriors?
95% of my shoot is exteriors in pretty rugged conditions - ocean/reefs/beach. As such I will be working/recording in hot sun/high temperatures with humidity -- on the beach and out on the water booming over swimmers and surfers. (This was a key reason behind my choice of a 7D and I was looking at getting a Rode NTG3, but then managed to find a friend who who already had one and owed me a favour.
So I primarily be recording dialogue and ambience beds outdoors - as well as some foley and fx.
Interior wise - there is only a dialogue scene in a four wheel drive and a handful of lines in a noisy part scene in a house.
The frenetic nature of the party I am not concerned with because I can be creative in mixing and the dialogue is secondary to the actors physical interaction and body language in these scenes.
I am however wondering if I can get away with the NTG3 for the 4 wheel drive scene as I've heard I could as it's more forgiving with its wider pattern, but I can also have some dooners and pillows in there as it's a road trip scene which could help. But if it's still too ill advised, I will look to borrow or hire for this scene so recommendations as to what and why would be much appreciated.
4. Will you be shooting outside at all with sound?
Yes, as said 95% will be exteriors. The dialogue in relative terms, could be considered sparse. This is not a talking heads pic. But as such i will in turn be somewhat more reliant on good ambience, foley and the overall sound design/FX as a result.
5. What level of experience do you have with sound?
I've been "around" sound a fair bit, have worked with some talented pro's, and I have also boomed, recorded and mixed in post for my own shorts a while back and done a little bit of foley and effects for them.
But that's all been of a pretty amateur level, so for all intents and purposes with this gear and sound in general I'm nothing more than a fairly switched on and well researched noob.
This is of course of concern to me. And so logically I have concerns about the sophistication of the equipment I might be purchasing and getting the best out it If I don't have a pro onboard.
But you can only do what you can.
6. What is the outlet you are hoping to have with the projects (DVD release for profit, web distribution, theatrical)
Theatrical via a festival pathway. If I fail I will be looking at the other ancillary markets.
7. Is this purchase for a specific project or are you looking to purchase a kit for general future projects?
Specific project. If the film makes it into the black I would be looking to upgrade my kit or sell it as I move onto the next project. But if it does not, then I can at least use my kit and or hire it out to help raise further funds for my next project.
8. Why do you feel that it is beneficial for you to buy sound gear versus hiring a professional (or networking for free with a professional) to do your audio?
Rates in Sydney are generally between 300 - 450 per day without gear - 600+ with for a pro. 3k might still be enough of a starting point to try and negotiate something with somebody -
but I am 2 hours from sydney where the for hire pros can be found and I will be operating in remote locations on a very difficult schedule where I will need to be able to either power ahead or cancel at a moments notice
So hiring a professional is looking pretty unlikely for me. Regardless I am still hoping I may be able to get some experienced help. But I certainly can't bank on it, so I'm looking at how to best adapt to the situation and move forward. At least there are some pro's to having some gear of my own and the more I learn about any aspect of production the better a director I find I become.
9. Will you have a dedicated person to run sound (even a friend to hold a boompole)?
As above - what i'm thinking is that I can hopefully find a talented and keen film student or former student still looking for some field experience, who ideally might be able to augment my gear.
My worse case is I will have around 7 months to test and learn my gear while studying and coming on line for advice etc while I line up some film making friends to help out on the shoot.
10 Does static in the background bother you. When you watch DVXfest films did you notice how on some films there is this white noise and then it disappears? Do you notice good sound?
Yes. Especially when it's my OWN! Though I'm sure not anywhere near to the degree of actual pro's. You don't know what you don't know... if you know what I mean.
Ok, so based on my research, release goals, and my particular projects requirements, here are my thoughts on equipment...
SOUND EQUIPMENT LIST
* Ty Ford Audio & Video Book: Audio Bootcamp Field Guide 4th Edition by Ty Ford $25
* Rode NTG-3 *Free*
* Gitzo 3560 - Six-Section Carbon Fiber Boompole (has length up to 4m as I'm going to need it. $315 (Anyone recommend a better option?)
Articulating boom would probably be most ideal - but too expensive.
* Sony MDR-7506 Circumaural Closed-Back Professional Monitor Headphone $83
* Rode Blimp - Complete Windshield and Suspension System $299[/COLOR]
TOTAL: $ 722
Key recorders I'm considering...
Sound Devices 702 - High-Resolution 2-Channel Compact Flash Field Recorder $1875
Fostex FR-2 LE - 2-Channel Compact Flash Field Recorder $600
Edirol / Roland R-44 Solid-State $995
Others I've considered
Marantz PMD661 Professional Portable Flash Field Recorder
HD P2
Sony PCM-D50
Tascam DR 100
Zoom h4n
Key Mixers I'm considering...
Sound Devices 302 $1295
Sound Devices Mixpre $665
(also investigated Juiced links)
My major thought is...
* As there are no situations that I need to set up multiple mics for... (truly) and I'm likely lacking a highly skilled technician, so simpler the better... so thinking forget about a mixer and instead just fork out for the quality 702 which should help me get good raw sound into post if we do a half decent job on set.
* Otherwise I could try to buy my 702 used and look to combine with a mixpre and still scrape inside my budget.
Or otherwise I would probably lean toward a combinations of...
*Mixpre with the Edirol R-44 or the Fostex FR-2 LE
Or although it doesn't make as much sense to me to do it this way round...
* Sound Devices 302 with the Edirol or Fostex.
* Unfortunately even used I don't think I could manage to get 302 & 702 and make my budget. never know your luck though.
*I would also need to spend on required cables and batteries etc.
Other issues :
* Timecode. As I am editing in FCP, from the recommendations I will be using plural eyes. I have read people successfully using the 7D's internal mic... But thinking I will still fork out for or borrow a cheap on camera mic unless someone can nominate a better solution. I'll run tests of course and if it's not working perfectly I will just go with a good old fashioned clapper approach.
*Once I have my ket equipment finalised - some advice on best cabling workflow etc would be hugely appreciated.
*Even advice on the best way to carry the kit would be very valuable to me, knowing that I wont be working with a cart.
Thanks so much in advance to anyone who offers their time and some help and for reading this massive post.
Best Wishes
Lliam Worthington
EDIT: Any new film makers who read this thread and are interested the responses/advice can be found on my thread "Grateful and well researched film maker seeks "sound" advice".
Last edited:
conradconrad
Member
I'd go with the Rycote INV-7 shock mount over those K-Tek ones suggested. Cheaper too.
recordingwhiz
Well-known member
Liam.
It looks like you have researched this well and are willing to invest in quality gear, dont forget all the consumables and specialty cables and spares,
Soundslike you have a great plan, and I do wish you the best, however may I point out that no matter what you will "need" an additional pair of arms regardles if you are to operate the camera as well as the audio. for a feature this will not likely be optional. You say you have about 7 monthsto practice before production begins? do your self a favor and enlist a volunteer that wants to help out and let them get as good as they can get booming the pole, I canno stress how CRITICAL this is to getting the big feature sound, you can have all the nice gear in the world but if the mic isnt where it is most favorable then is all for noothing. train a volunteer that is willing to do the budget under your circumbstances, since you do have enough time to practice and get your home-made sound guy up to speed.
Doing a feature without a manned sound system is like asking to fly a plane with only one wing... you cannot change physics, order TY's video, you will learn alot from it. then beg, borrow, or steal some one that is willing to be your sound guy for the project and is willing to work for your budget.
NO ammount of gear can make up for the 8" off the boom pole was during different shots or takes.
but keep chugging on th egear plan. youre headed in the right direction just dont forget that the guy booming for you is as important as the recorder itself.
Good luck and let us know how your project goes as it progresses.
It looks like you have researched this well and are willing to invest in quality gear, dont forget all the consumables and specialty cables and spares,
Soundslike you have a great plan, and I do wish you the best, however may I point out that no matter what you will "need" an additional pair of arms regardles if you are to operate the camera as well as the audio. for a feature this will not likely be optional. You say you have about 7 monthsto practice before production begins? do your self a favor and enlist a volunteer that wants to help out and let them get as good as they can get booming the pole, I canno stress how CRITICAL this is to getting the big feature sound, you can have all the nice gear in the world but if the mic isnt where it is most favorable then is all for noothing. train a volunteer that is willing to do the budget under your circumbstances, since you do have enough time to practice and get your home-made sound guy up to speed.
Doing a feature without a manned sound system is like asking to fly a plane with only one wing... you cannot change physics, order TY's video, you will learn alot from it. then beg, borrow, or steal some one that is willing to be your sound guy for the project and is willing to work for your budget.
NO ammount of gear can make up for the 8" off the boom pole was during different shots or takes.
but keep chugging on th egear plan. youre headed in the right direction just dont forget that the guy booming for you is as important as the recorder itself.
Good luck and let us know how your project goes as it progresses.
ReelFilmGeek
Well-known member
I'm having a hard time finding the Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap anywhere other than ebay. What's the average price of these things now a day and what do i have to do to make sure I don't get a Chinese knock off?
ReelFilmGeek
Well-known member
Thanks David, for some reason I thought I read these mics were around only 200 bucks, man I was wrong >.<
They were at one time, but it's gone up considerably. Straight from Oktava in Russia, it's 174 Euros, so as of right now, that's $226.
No idea what shipping is, though.
No idea what shipping is, though.
ReelFilmGeek
Well-known member
So I found this on ebay and was wondering if it was worth trying to get or is buying the parts alone for the mic too much of a pain/expensive that its not worth it?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320885146779?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_500wt_1413
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320885146779?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_500wt_1413
Richard Crowley
Veteran
Beware, that has the looks of a Chinese counterfeit Oktava microphone, an unauthorized clone of the original Russian product.
The seller claims it is a genuine Russian product, but the photo sure doesn't offer any evidence of that.
If he wanted to prove it, he should have offered some photographic evidence beyond his verbal claim.
While the Chinese amplifier/body is actually better than the Russian genuine product, the capsules are inferior to the originals made in Tula.
Currently at $50. Maybe worth it for that price.
Here is a good reference to discriminate between the genuine and the counterfeit...
http://recordinghacks.com/fake-oktava-mk-012-photos/
The seller claims it is a genuine Russian product, but the photo sure doesn't offer any evidence of that.
If he wanted to prove it, he should have offered some photographic evidence beyond his verbal claim.
While the Chinese amplifier/body is actually better than the Russian genuine product, the capsules are inferior to the originals made in Tula.
Currently at $50. Maybe worth it for that price.
Here is a good reference to discriminate between the genuine and the counterfeit...
http://recordinghacks.com/fake-oktava-mk-012-photos/
Rick R
Veteran
I concur with Richard, the eBay seller's picture and statement are in conflict.
Even with a genuine Russian 012 , there's the infamous Oktava quality control issue. I always recommend getting an Oktava from the The Sound Room http://oktava.com/home were you're guaranteed a quality pick.
That said, the 012 still isn't a good mic for an inexperienced boom op, due to the handing noise and other issues.
Even with a genuine Russian 012 , there's the infamous Oktava quality control issue. I always recommend getting an Oktava from the The Sound Room http://oktava.com/home were you're guaranteed a quality pick.
That said, the 012 still isn't a good mic for an inexperienced boom op, due to the handing noise and other issues.
ReelFilmGeek
Well-known member
Well since I am doing this more as a hobby maybe I should stay away from this and go with a more friendly mic? Reason is I don't usually boom op but have a friend do it. I'm usually being the director and DP.