New To Audio? - Read This First Please

Jeremy Ordan

Jeremy Ordan

Major Contributor
Over the past year or so I know that I have gotten emails and PMs from people asking my advice (why they would ask my advice when there are professionals on this site makes no sense to me) on first purchases for audio. As is the case with filmmakers money is always a concern and issue that needs to be dealt with. Being a member of this site I have been lucky enough to have people like MattinSTL, Oleg, Wabbit, Ty, Joe, Dave and others (sorry if I left you off the list) guide my purchases in the past and help me learn from their experience. With this post I hope to do the same for others. I have come up with a ten point questionnaire that I believe that anyone, whether you already have a mixer, recorder, and twenty different types of microphones or are looking for you first purchase to move from on camera microphone to the first external microphone.

Jeremy's Audio Questionnaire
1. What is the budget that we are working with (either immediately or over the next few months)
2. What type of films are you doing (short dramatic films, feature dramatic, documentary, interviews)
3. Are your locations PRIMARILY interiors or exteriors?
4. Will you be shooting outside at all with sound?
5. What level of experience do you have with sound?
6. What is the outlet you are hoping to have with the projects (DVD release for profit, web distribution, theatrical)
7. Is this purchase for a specific project or are you looking to purchase a kit for general future projects?
8. Why do you feel that it is beneficial for you to buy sound gear versus hiring a professional (or networking for free with a professional) to do your audio?
9. Will you have a dedicated person to run sound (even a friend to hold a boompole)?
10. Do you notice the difference between good sound and poor sound when you are watching films?

These questions might be a little simple, but I think that anyone answering these questions honestly will find out exactly what sort of audio kit will best meet their needs.

Here is my rationalization for this questionnaire:

1. Budget - Your audio investment will far out last your camera, but it is just a matter of fact that many of us blow our wad on the camera so therefore money is a concern. Approach your audio budget with what you can purchase now versus what you will have to wait to purchase at a later time. No one can tell you how much you can afford, but I will try to come up with kits that will work for any budget. Be honest with yourself and what type of audio results you expect. A $1 investment into a camera will be worth $.50 in under 2-3 years (look at the marketplace to see DVX100's available at $1500), whereas $1 in audio could maintain its $1 in use in 20 years or at least $.75 if you need to sell it.
2. There is a difference between these in my opinion. People looking at doing primarily interviews can get away with a simple lav microphone solution whereas people looking for a short film will need at least one primary off camera microphone. Once you get into features multiple microphones for different situations are normally required with the possibility of multiple microphones for exteriors and interiors.
3. A lot of people say that they will shoot inside and outside, but end up shooting primarily indoors. I think that this is a very important question that first time audio buyers need to answer because it is the single question that can save them the most amount of money.
4. I shoot a lot outside, but I do not shoot outside with audio in 1/10th of the situations as I shoot indoors with audio. Keep in mind whether you will be shooting outdoors with sound. Also tied into this thought, which part of the country do you live in. If you are in the plane states then wind is much stronger than if you are here in Charlotte, NC. If you are in the mountains your wind is much stronger and gusty than the steady breeze you might get in LA.
5. What level of experience do you have? Kind of self explanatory... Do you have experience booming or insulating a location for sound and reflection? If you're shooting an interview and you have five microphones to choose from (Like Oleg, Matt, or Wabbit) do you know which you are going to reach for first?
6. If you are planning on theatrical, budget more. If you are planning on DVD, budget more. If you are planning on web or personal amusement, you can get away with a little less. Everyone when they start a project believes that they are going to make the next Open Water, Blair Witch Project, or Clerks. Be honest and look at what microscopic percentage of projects makes it theatrical and what the odds of success are. From that point you know what your financial investment needs to be.
7. A lot of people believe that if they are doing a project that they need to buy the gear. This is simply not true. I have thousands and thousands of dollars (which is tens of thousands of dollars less that Matt, Oleg, Ty, Wabbit, and others) invested into sound. I rent stuff all the time because for $50 for a weekend I can have a $1000 microphone. Now, if I am going to use it everyday and make a living off it, then I should buy, but if I'm not I get 20 rentals before I could own that mic. 20 rentals is a lot of great use of this microphone without having to save $1000 (filmmakers are bad at saving up for stuff).
8. I'm a huge advocate of hiring someone. Always have been and always will. Every time I recommend this to someone they say that they can't afford it or simply that they want to own the gear. Regardless that someone buying the gear cannot possibly afford to purchase or invest the time to learn this gear inside and out, people want to own stuff. I understand that because lets say that you want to shoot a buddy jerking off. Then it makes sense to be able to have sound. Needless to say, set your expectations accordingly. If you can hire someone, then it is 99.999999% of the time a better idea to bring a sound person along to do sound rather than try to do it yourself (I'm sure if you ask every single one of the pros on this board how many times they have worked at a reduced fee or for next to nothing to help someone out or to be involved in a project they believed in you will be surprised by the results).
9. Do you have a friend? If you say yes, then you have someone to run sound. I never recommend running sound if you are directing, shooting, or jerking off in the corner.
10. There are people who do not notice good sound and if you are one of those people you will get away cheaper. Does static in the background bother you. When you watch DVXfest films did you notice how on some films there is this white noise and then it disappears? Do you notice good sound?
 
OK, so that is my questionnaire. Pretty complete and sort of helps guide you to get started hopefully. So now to what people write me about, the actual kits. What I am going to try to do is to put together a couple of new to sound user kits for all budget considerations and situations. I will include links on where to purchase and see what we can come up with from there.

NOTES: Please remember that sound travels through a cable. I am not including cables into this post but please always budget $25-$75 for cables. Furthermore, I am not including headphones, there are numerous threads regarding headphones, personally I like the Sony MDR's for $100.

Kit #1: Ultra Budget Kit
Who It's For: People who want to move from on camera microphone situations but have virtually no money to invest. These people are not concerned with noise floor in their audio and are just looking for a small upgrade for the standard microphone set up.
Includes: Audio Technica AT55 Shotgun Microphone ($75), Painters Pole ($35), 1/8" to 1/4" converter ($10), 1/4" to XLR converter ($10). Total cost: $130

Kit #2: I don't care what you say, I'm going on camera Kit (indoors)
Who It's For: People who refuse to listen to reason and are determined to mount their mic on camera. WARNING: Results will vary with this kit.
Includes: Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), High wind screen ($50), Sambra Shockmount ($50). Total Cost: $280

Kit #3: Web Short Film Producer Kit
Who It's For: People putting together short films, primarily indoors, and looking to cut corners where possible to save money but still want decent results.
Includes: Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), High Wind Screen ($50), Sambra Shockmount ($50), Gitzo 10' Boompole ($120). Total Cost: $400

Kit #4: I don't care what you say, I'm going on camera and I want a shotgun mic damnit Kit (indoors)
Who It's For: People who refuse to listen to reason and are determined to mount their mic on camera and want a shotgun mic. WARNING: Results will vary with this kit.
Includes: Rode NTG 1 ($250), Rycote Softie ($100), Gitzo Shockmount ($50). Total Cost: $400

Kit #5: Web Short Film Producer Plus+ Kit
Who It's For: People putting together short films, primarily indoors, but are looking to invest in better materials now that they can build upon in the future.
Includes: Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), Rycote BBG ($100), KteK KSSM Shockmount w/ soft bands ($100), Gitzo 12'7" carbon fiber boompole ($200). Total Cost: $580

Kit #6: Self Distributed Short Film Producer Kit
Who It's For: People putting together short films indoors and outdoors, and looking to cut corners where possible to save money but still want decent results.
Includes: Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), Rode NTG1 Shotgun Mic ($250), Windscreen ($50), High Wind Screen ($50), Sambra Shockmount ($50), Gitzo 10' Boompole ($120). Total Cost: $700

Kit #7: Self Distributed Short Film Producer Plus+ Kit
Who It's For: People putting together short films and indoors, but are looking to invest in better materials now that they can build upon in the future.
Includes: Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), Rycote BBG ($100), Rode NTG1 Shotgun Mic ($250), Rycote Softie ($100), KteK KSSM Shockmount w/ soft bands ($100), Gitzo 12'7" carbon fiber boompole ($200). Total Cost: $930

Kit #8: Hey... Now You're Talking Package Kit
Who It's For: People looking to make a solid investment into beginning sound and are looking for solid location sound immediately. This kit will work for interiors, exteriors, and help users progress and build upon.
Includes: Audio Technica 4043a Shotgun Mic ($500), Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), Rycote BBG ($100), Rycote Softie ($100), KteK KSSM ($100), Gitzo Carbon Fiber Boom Pole ($300) Total Cost: $1280

Beyond this, well then you've learned about sound enough to start adding mixers, external recorders, wireless, and other tools. Remember these are starter kits and if they are beneath you, that's fine!

Two final quick notes:
NOTE ONE: I suggest the Rode NTG1 as the baseline shotgun microphone for two reasons: 1. I think it sounds better and fuller than the AT897 or Sennheiser ME66. If you disagree with this then by all means please go ahead and substitute the AT897 or ME66 in place of the Rode. This is a personal preference for me and I think that the Rode, while not what I would consider professional quality is the best sounding of the >$400 microphones. This is my personal, non professional opinion. 2. The second reason I suggest the Rode is because of the price point. It is $50 less than the AT897 and $150 less than the ME66. When dealing with budgets I think this is important to recognize.
NOTE TWO: This is simply my suggestion to be a general guide to where you can move forward and start with. I have used all of the gear I suggest above and from my experience I had acceptable to great results with the gear. It will of course depend on your skill level, your enthusiasm, and most importantly you desire to learn and grow before you reap all the benefits of any of the above packages. Best of luck!

Jeremy
 
Thanks Silverwolf. I hope some people get some use out of the thread and it helps with questions later on.

-Jeremy
 
I'm getting all kinds of information. I haven't started purchasing my audio yet mainly because my Co-worker owns a audio production studio and so does my brother so I have access to a lot of things and his help if needed. But i love reading you and Mattinstl's threads because they are always jam packed with info
 
Thanks for your posts, Yankee. A great compilation of low budget solutions for audio. I second the nomination of this thread for a sticky.
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Once again, I don't think that anything I write or post should be a sticky, but hopefully this thread helps people with buying decisions and stuff.

I personally think that my threads don't come close to the information included with in MattinSTL's posts.

-Jeremy
 
Don't sell yourself short Jeremy... the way you've been consolidating these threads into concise points has got to be a huge help to the never-ending supply of new members (who ask the same questions).

You've been doing a great job in this forum and I'm glad people have noticed.
 
Very good to say the least! Definitely clear enough for all levels of sound people. although if you are new, which I still say I am, do not be afraid to ask questions and do your own research still (that is, should know what a shockmount is, BBG and windscreen and difference, etc.)

I do have a question, would you consider instead of the Rode an MK-012 with Cardroid cap and hyper? If shooting outside? (with BBG of course or High Windscreen and veyr least) I think I can foresee the answer =)

And how much "better" is the gitzo carbon fiber boompole vs. the gitzo aluminum? Obviously sound reflection and handling, but boompoles really get up there in price, im definitely least apt to boompole land.
 
Nice post Jeremy. Seems like a great stickie to me.

As for going cheap on the boompole: give whoever is going to hold the boom $800 bucks and let him choose (he can pocket the extra dough if he buys the cheap one). Anyone who has boomed even one 10 hour video shoot will gladly plunk down all the money for weight alone.

As the day wears on and the weight gets to him, the boom work will become sloppier and sloppier. Leaving you with crap audio at the end of every day (probably a burnt out boomop who quits after a couple days too). Was the $500 savings worth it? Of course there is always room to cut corners and make compromises but that is the potential downside of cutting that one.

Cheers
 
I've got the carbon fiber gitzo and a graphite K-Tek and the graphite K-Tek went up about 100% in value after a really long day recently... I was thankful for every ounce of reduced weight... I'm even looking at my gitzo and thinking I can cut down the metal top... or even cut it off completely... and figure out a different way to mount the mic. Jeez... maybe I'll just consider it my "beater pole".

The more exposure I get to seriously professional shoots the less I care about any aspect of my gear other then how well it works and how easy it is to use. Working professionals aren't thinking about ANYTHING ELSE. It just depends on what you're doing with your gear and what you think you'll be doing down the line.

Here's a little booming tip... I'll do some pics on this later. Get some WIDE velcro with the adhesive on it... put a band of it at the base of your pole, at the center of the fattest (base) length... and at the top of the base length just under the collar. This has made my boom a lot more convenient then it was last week. I use any or all of each of these 3 points for adding a counterbalance bag via a "Piggin' String"... or I use a point for cable management via a "Rip-Tie". These are a couple of serious conveniences that I can't believe I never thought of before. The top most fuzzy protects the pole when it's in a cradle... and when I'm using the pole at full length I may actually control the cable all that way up.
 
Regarding boompoles, I really think it comes down to personal preference. When you are talking about professional sets, ect. then the lighter the better. It's like if you have ever gone hiking or backpacking. You pay a lot more for gear because it saves weight, and weight is murder in the outdoors. Every ounce counts when you are working with audio, so it makes a lot of sense to use carbon fiber or graphite. That being said, the first pole I normally go to is my aluminum because I like it and it's longer. For longer shoots though, especially if I'm doing sound for a buddy or anything like that, I always go to the carbon fiber.

Like Matt said though, this stuff is about preference. I'm sure somewhere out there there is a pro who believes in his painters pole (now those suckers are heavy), but it is the results you get from your tools, not the tools themselves that make the artist what he is.

This is true even regarding microphones, cameras, or paint brushes. For example, Wabbit can get better results from an AT55 than I can from an MKH416 (well maybe, that's a bit extreme). Jarred can get more film like results from a DVX then I can with a Varicam. Rich Lee can do more with a pencil than I can with a full studio of computers and all the art supplies on the planet. [I really come out like a tool with these examples]. The point is, use what works best for you and screw everyone else.

Gear lust is the mark of someone who hasn't mastered his own tools... I have a lot of gear lust though.

-Jeremy
 
Jeremy,

Based on your examples...you really suck dude! ;-)

Seriously, and as usual, this is a great post!

Thanks!

Phil
 
Kit #8: Hey... Now You're Talking Package Kit
Who It's For: People looking to make a solid investment into beginning sound and are looking for solid location sound immediately. This kit will work for interiors, exteriors, and help users progress and build upon.
Includes: Audio Technica 4043a Shotgun Mic ($500), Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), Rycote BBG ($100), Rycote Softie ($100), KteK KSSM ($100), Gitzo Carbon Fiber Boom Pole ($300) Total Cost: $1280
Click to expand...

Jeremy,

In Kit #8, is there an AT4043a or did you mean the AT4073a? Just a student of your's wanting to know?
 
Here are dumb questions, can every shotgun mic be used on a boom pole as well?

Also, how do voice overs work? can you record to a different program, and then import to vegas and put it over your video?

One more, will a shot gun mic work if I'm recording on a deck or something, and not on tape?
 
The 4043a to my understanding is a hyper cardiod mic. It is more ideally suited for interiors. I like the 4073a as a professional shotgun that is half the price of the MKH416, an industry standard shotgun microphone from Sennheiser. The differences, which are well documented on this site, are that the Sennheiser has better rear rejection and a tighter pattern. I also feel that the Sennheiser sounds a bit more organic and natural, but others have different opinions. Personally, for the money, the 4073a being half the price of the MKH416 the 4073a is the best value & highest performance microphone I have ever used/owned.

All shotgun microphones can be used on a boompole. In fact, I believe that microphones, unless we are talking about lavalier mics, should only be used on a boompole. From my experience the closest mic is the one that sounds the best. I do not even like to use anything camera mounted and really believe that filmmaking is a collabrative effort. That being said, a $180 Oktava on a boom above a speaker will sound better than a $1100 MKH416 camera mounted four feet away.

Any microphone should be able to be used on a boompole though.

For voice over stuff, now you get into a tricky area of preference. For my projects I have done ADR (additional dialogue recording) as well as just random voice over stuff, and depending on the project either use an Oktava hyper cardiod boomed above the speaker and record to a DAT or directly to the computer (using a tool like sound forge or Vegas) or I have used a studio microphone. I prefer to use the same microphone that I am using for the rest of the project so that the characteristics and flavor of the mic remain similar throughout the project. Essentially every microphone has a signature sound. The more expensive microphones have less of a noticable signature sound and become more neutral. A great example of this is the ME66. The ME66 shotgun microphone from Sennheiser is very thin sounding and has this noticable lack of depth is the low and mid range. I'm just not a fan of that microphone.

You will be able to record to any device with the gear I have listed in the various kits.

One final note: I talk a lot about the Oktava, and I really believe that this little, inexpensive microphone is the best value and best performer for virtually any project. It is a tiny microphone that sounds, well, it sounds like you are getting Hollywood caliber sound out of it. I love this little microphone, but had it not been for MattinSTL I would never have known about this mic, let alone had an opportunity to own one. I really believe that when it comes down to gear, this is the one instrument in my tool kit that is my weapon of choice. Any time I go into a sound situation I ask myself if I can make the Oktava work in this situation, and most of the time, I can. I have a lot of microphones, and the Oktava is the first one I turn to constantly, and it is the least expensive of them all. I don't work for them, but I took the advice of a friend and got one, and have never looked back. I have used this mic for interviews, commercials, band recordings, instrument recordings, and short films. It is really my magic bullet. Matt should be given a medal or something for spreading the word about this great tool rather than keeping the knowledge to himself.

-Jeremy
 
Bryan Beasleigh is the one who turned me onto the Oktava... I can't take credit for discovering it... and there's probably somebody who started using it for film production way back. By reading about the development of the Mk012/Mc012 you will see that (apparently) this is what the designers had in mind from the beginning... but I have no way of verifying if audio for film production really was the driving force behind it.

I think the Oktava started to gain in popularity around 2002... right around the time of the Scott Dorsey article in Recording magazine. So maybe he deserves the most credit. Eventually I think almost every DVXuser on the boards will have one also... so I'd bet this will be known as the second surge.

The moral of the story is to stay open-minded. Everybody that sees an Oktava for the first time has the same thought; "What the hell IS this little thing?"

All I ever do in my posts is blab out my thoughts of the day as if I'm talking to a friend... and the problem is I talk too much for most people's taste. I could stand to apply a little more skill in organizing threads like this... but I'll leave that to Yankee (you can quit giving me props now... I'd be reluctant to use the term, "master" for myself... but if you know Kung Fu the series then you know the saying from the show grasshopper. You snatched the pebble from my hand so you may as well take credit for organizing these well-thought out threads.)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top