FS7: New Sony F7 XDCAM 4K Super 35mm Camcorder

[Viddovation]

Yes I mentioned this to Juan Martinez at the Photoplus Sony booth a few weeks ago. What's worse is that if you are shooting XAVC-L 4K, if you want to go past 60p you have to manually switch to 1080p in the menu and then turn on S&Q. If you want to go past 120fps, you have to also manually switch you the XAVC-I codec. And some of those options require a restart as well. I can't remember which ones. It's certainly not as easy as pressing the S&Q button once or twice like on the FS700.

I highly doubt that Sony would have the reboots occur if it wasn't absolutely necessary given the available hardware in the camera. And using better hardware that doesn't require rebooting might put the camera in a different price bracket.

The downside of a camera that can do as many different modes as the FS7 can is deciding how to organize the menus and buttons to keep them all accessible. I'm not sure there's much to be done about it. The one idea I could think of is essentially what the Sony F35 does - it stores two operation modes in memory concurrently - one being the standard mode, and one being the Select FPS mode. If you could independently set your standard record mode and your S&Q mode and save them, then the S&Q button could flip between the two settings, doing any required rebooting in the process.

To save more than one set of shoot modes, perhaps the utility SD card slot could be used.

 

[Lenilenapi]

Gene,
can you post a link to those original slog3 files? I would like to play with those at home also.

 

[Kholi]

Gene,
can you post a link to those original slog3 files? I would like to play with those at home also.

^ yes

 

[nyvz]

If DSLRs can store a group of settings in a custom preset that is only ever one button or turn of a dial away without rebooting, the fs7 should be able to do it... The a7s does this with mode dial 1 and 2. And it has menus that aren't laggy... Someone at Sony knows how to make this happen clearly.

 

[Grug]

Someone on Facebook posted these FS7 S-Log 3 S-Gamut3 shots and I just ran a quick pre-set using FilmConvert. Looks nice to me for a no effort / pre-set grade. I like the vibe, the colors are rich and the blacks on the ungraded S-Log 3 are far less noisy than S-Log 2 I've been getting on the 7Q which is surprising because I was under the impression that S-Log 3 is way noisier than S-Log 2.

At the same exposure, the only difference between SLOG2 and SLOG3 should be a little more highlight detail in SLOG2 and a little more shadow detail in SLOG3. Changing the gamma curve makes no difference to the noise floor of the sensor.

 

[Viddovation]

If DSLRs can store a group of settings in a custom preset that is only ever one button or turn of a dial away without rebooting, the fs7 should be able to do it... The a7s does this with mode dial 1 and 2. And it has menus that aren't laggy... Someone at Sony knows how to make this happen clearly.

As someone who has actually tried his hand at programming microprocessors on a hobby level I can tell you that it isn't as simple as your argument suggests.

 

[Gene Sung]

Gene,
can you post a link to those original slog3 files? I would like to play with those at home also.

http://thakala.com/forBase/FS7_SLOG3_SGAMUT3_DPX_EXPORT.zip

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Not bad.

 

[Erik Wittbusch]

Hi.

I got my FS7 yesterday and tried out quickly if it can be used under production circumstances
without any serious quirks.

- it's heavier than I remembered from the demo unit (did they put some bricks inside?)
- the handle can be in your way depending on the way of operation (if its put out for handheld, camera can't be put safely to the ground)
- display mount doesn't really satisfy me (waiting for more alternatives besides vocas)
- menu operation is slow and laggy (this realy feels beta!)
- button layout is totally different from FS-series (this needs definitely some experience in operation)
- cine EI mode is still a little mistery to me (but this seems more me than wrong implementation of cine EI)


- feels very nice in my hands
- I had no problem to switch on the waveform/histogram in custom mode(outout set to HD while rec set to UHD)
- speedbooster and my lenses work BUT:
> iris dial needs way to much turns for quick operation (I'll use push auto-iris for quick op though)
> focus distance is beeing displayed, but too laggy to use it on R+G

Will do more testing the next days. Especially cine EI, more lenses on my speedbooster
and the different picture setting in post.

All in all I feel that I have a great camera, that is somehow in beta status...

 

[morgan_moore]

..that is somehow in beta status...

I find this worrying in that this camera should be fast to use, intuitive.

 

[Erik Wittbusch]

Yeah.

It's a kind of a show stopper for me. Hopefully Sony will fix some of these quirks.
Especially the menu system is laggy but usually not needed for R+G.

 

[DLD]

Apologies, if this has already been posted/linked ... but, if not, a few grading and ISO samples recently uploaded to YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E94RPImOmBs

 

[Alpha Beta Omega]

These issues is a dilemma. Question is if it's better to wait until the major bugs are worked out before purchasing?

 

[Erik Wittbusch]

It depends.

You need a new camera now - buy it and hope for these issues to be solved in the next firmware.

You already have production equipment and think of going 4k - wait for the next firmware.
It's not obvious that Sony is ever going to solve or change the things we don't like.

As I heard today from a certified Sony expert, they already know about the two main issues (iris
control and waveform appearance). I send a list of the issues I found so far and I'm not the only
one who is complaining.

Everybody should try to contact Sony via his/her dealer or through the website to make clear that
these issues will keep potential buyers from purchasing the camera at this point of development.
If sales are going nice, Sony doesn't get much pressure to change anything...

We are strong as a community if we pull the same rope!

 

[FrameFarmMedia]

These issues is a dilemma. Question is if it's better to wait until the major bugs are worked out before purchasing?

I was thinking the same thing then realized that I had made the choice to be an early adopter by pre-ordering and still will take my order the moment it comes in. The menue lag is the only thing that really concerns me although I would really like them to sort out LUTS as that was a big bonus of this camera.

 

[Alpha Beta Omega]

Apart from LUTs, Metabones potential issues, iris lag and what not I'm not that keen on changing my post workflow to do with S-log3 rather than Slog2 and if the camera once in my hands should lock up during a shoot that's not acceptable. These are issues and can't be ignored. I'm shooting with my F3 and these last two years I've had zero camera issues.

I do see the potential in 4k recording, internal 10-bit 422 and high FPS improving the ease of use and providing greater quality to clients. It's just that I don't want to struggle with my equipment any more.

 

[FrameFarmMedia]

AI'm not that keen on changing my post workflow to do with S-log3 rather than Slog2 and if the camera once in my hands should lock up during a shoot that's not acceptable.

Crashes are the biggest concern but so far I have only heard one reported online. Have others been reporting crashes? The rest I'm willing to work around for the price and others I'm sure will be fixed next fw release but crashes are unacceptable.

What would change about your workflow from Slog2 to Slog3? I am asking as I have little experience with Slog workflow at the moment and have been reading and learning anything I can right now. From the sounds of it Slog3 would be easier workflow once the luts get sorted.

 

[Alpha Beta Omega]

I'm currently shooting S-log not S-log2. The difference is that while S-log may hold 13 stops S-log2 holds 14 stops. S-log3 on the other hand have a very narrow range between middle grey and 90% white and add to that a much higher level of shadows. The result as I see it you wont get as good looking faces with S-log 3 as S-log or S-log2 can because the range between middle grey and 90% white is greater with S-log/S-log2. Sure when you grade each version of S-log you'll end up at the same levels but S-log3 will show less range in between middle grey and 90% white. That's the beauty of S-log/Slog2 and getting great looking faces and highlights.

With the implementation of S-log3 on the FS7 there's no noise reduction applied with resulting greater levels of noise that you have to learn how to tame. So until S-log2 comes to the FS7 S-log3 will at least to me be a less desirable gamma curve. It will take on a change in post workflow. Not to say that S-log/S-log2 is easy but I got them cracked.

 

[Babu]

Crashes are the biggest concern but so far I have only heard one reported online. Have others been reporting crashes?....

I experienced one crash with the camera. It was shooting XAVC-L 120fps. I was using a N card and violently whipped the camera around. Camera locked up. Took out battery and did it again no problems after that. Was very strange but lesson learned. I do have 2 S cards for SS now so I doubt such a thing will happen again.

 

[Gene Sung]

These issues is a dilemma. Question is if it's better to wait until the major bugs are worked out before purchasing?

This is definitely a wait for fixes thing for me (hopefully by the new year). I went through this with the Odyssey 7Q as I was one of the first to buy it a year ago. BUG CITY! It was so frustrating and I just don't want go through that again.