CAMCORDERS: New Sony Camcorder Z200

Bassman2003 said:
Doug, have you used the Z200 with a rear zoom controller very much? How is the action? I have come to really like the CX350's rear zoom action with an old Libec controller. It is as close to a real Canon broadcast feel I have used in camcorder builds.
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Good question. No, I had not used a rear zoom controller with the Z200 until I saw your message. So I pulled out my Sony RM-1BP and hooked it up.

In my opinion, it is not equal to the performance I'm used to with my Canon and Fujinon broadcast lenses. But it is very, very close. Maybe 98% as good, if I had to put a number on it. Definitely way better than any of the other small camcorders I've owned like the EX1, EX3, Z150 and Z280. There's just the tiniest little lurch right at the beginning unless you set the speed to LOW. But less of a lurch than other cameras. You can hide it pretty well by my incorporating a little pan or tilt at the same time the zoom starts.

However, it could just be that Sony zoom controller itself. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that a different controller might work better. When you zoom with the camera's rocker on the grip, it does feel as good as a broadcast lens. It really does. No lurch, and very smooth. It's the best zoom I've ever used on a lens that isn't a 2/3" broadcast lens.

Unfortunately the rocker is at a very awkward location for tripod shooting. My style is to use my left hand over the top of the lens for zooming and that is hard to do without contorting the fingers a little bit to get around the handle.

The Sony zoom controller also works very nicely for focusing.

If anyone wants to loan me a zoom controller I'd be happy to put it to the test.
 
Thanks Doug! Sounds like Sony put very nice motors and gears in the lens. I want a zoom/zoom controller to be "spongy" Meaning it is very fluid for soft landings and starts. I would guess the Sony team had CX350s and Canon XF650s in house to at least match the performance to since these cameras have been on the market for a while.
 
That's amazing that the rocker on camera is virtually as good as a standard 2/3" lens. We've come a long way!

Doug, have you ever had the opportunity to use a Preston Microforce as a rear zoom control vs the manufacturer's versions? It's been a very long time since I have but I did find the response to be best-in-show. I don't know if they ever ported it to LANC 1/8", I only ever had Canon and Fuji Hirose cables.
 
Charles, no I've never used a Microforce. I've heard a lot about them but I was already happy with my Fujinon, Canon, and VariZoom controllers.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Doug, have you used the Z200 with a rear zoom controller very much? How is the action? I have come to really like the CX350's rear zoom action with an old Libec controller. It is as close to a real Canon broadcast feel I have used in camcorder builds.

Speaking of rear controls, I have come to use the rear iris control option on my PX270s over the years. Does anyone know of a way to control iris over the LANC protocol with a controller? Having a wheel to adjust iris on the fly really helps when I use two cameras during live events (wide and tight). I know LANC is a single input on the camera but maybe there is a way with a Y cable or something. Thanks!
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Relating to your question on iris control. If the Z200 runs the same LANC (Control L protocol) on its 2.5 mm port as the FS7, or the augmented LANC protocol of the FX6, via its rear 2.5 mm port, which I would image in does, then I think you would be able to control, zoom, iris and focus with one of the grips of an FS7. I do this quite successfully on the FX6 using an FS7 grip via the FX6's rear 2.5 mm port. I use an FS7 arm, from a destroyed FS7, it wasn't on the camera when the camera got totalled. I use the arm in its shortest setting attached to an ARRI rosette equipped SmallRig clamp which clamps to the tripod pan bar.

The Z200 has an iris dial on the body, left side. As has the FS7/FX6/FX9. With those cameras, the camera's grip rotary finger dial can operate the iris. Giving you full iris control from the grip. As there is no dial assignment menu in the Z200, only button assignments. It begs the question. I think if you tried an FS7 grip connected to a Z200, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the grip dial worked to control the Z200's iris. I could be totally wrong, but the whole LANC protocol is pretty basic and seems to be pretty standard across most of the Sony range. Maybe worth a try?

EDIT: I completely forgot Sony's RM30BP remote control. Can clamp to a tripod pan bar. Has control over a multitude of camera functions. It can also control three cameras with its multi camera function. Can control iris AND Sony's E-ND variable electronic ND. Works with the FX6. And on that basis I would imagine with the Z200. Sony claims it will work with "a slew of other Sony cameras and camcorders", Worth checking out, I guess.

Chris Young

See it here:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...rm_30bp_wired_remote_controller.html/overview
 
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Doug Jensen said:
Charles, no I've never used a Microforce. I've heard a lot about them but I was already happy with my Fujinon, Canon, and VariZoom controllers.
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If you ever get a chance to try one at a trade show, let me know what you think. The issue I had with standard zoom Fuji and Canon controllers (and this is several decades ago now, so they may have improved) was that they tended not to activate from the very first nudge of the rocker, you had to kind of feather into it before it would "grab" and begin to zoom. In fact if I had to do a very subtle creep zoom I would wake up the controller before the shot by doing a short series of zooms in either direction, it seemed to help. The Microforce was immediately responsive and just seemed to be more intuitive to the touch to get nuanced shots, where you have to vary the zoom speed mid-shot. Also, the variable speed control was very helpful, and added controls on later versions like auto-feather.
 
cyvideo said:
Relating to your question on iris control. If the Z200 runs the same LANC (Control L protocol) on its 2.5 mm port as the FS7, or the augmented LANC protocol of the FX6, via its rear 2.5 mm port, which I would image in does, then I think you would be able to control, zoom, iris and focus with one of the grips of an FS7. I do this quite successfully on the FX6 using an FS7 grip via the FX6's rear 2.5 mm port. I use an FS7 arm, from a destroyed FS7, it wasn't on the camera when the camera got totalled. I use the arm in its shortest setting attached to an ARRI rosette equipped SmallRig clamp which clamps to the tripod pan bar.

The Z200 has an iris dial on the body, left side. As has the FS7/FX6/FX9. With those cameras, the camera's grip rotary finger dial can operate the iris. Giving you full iris control from the grip. As there is no dial assignment menu in the Z200, only button assignments. It begs the question. I think if you tried an FS7 grip connected to a Z200, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the grip dial worked to control the Z200's iris. I could be totally wrong, but the whole LANC protocol is pretty basic and seems to be pretty standard across most of the Sony range. Maybe worth a try?

EDIT: I completely forgot Sony's RM30BP remote control. Can clamp to a tripod pan bar. Has control over a multitude of camera functions. It can also control three cameras with its multi camera function. Can control iris AND Sony's E-ND variable electronic ND. Works with the FX6. And on that basis I would imagine with the Z200. Sony claims it will work with "a slew of other Sony cameras and camcorders", Worth checking out, I guess.

Chris Young

See it here:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...rm_30bp_wired_remote_controller.html/overview
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Thanks Chris. That gives some optimism that the protocol is there. I am aware of the Sony remote and will look into it but at close $1,000 USD it might not be my choice :) I might contact the Varizoom folks and see what they say. I have used their Panasonic rear iris controller for years which is just a small knurled wheel but it is handy to clamp on the tripod arm and have full control.
 
cyvideo said:
I think if you tried an FS7 grip connected to a Z200, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the grip dial worked to control the Z200's iris. I could be totally wrong, but the whole LANC protocol is pretty basic and seems to be pretty standard across most of the Sony range. Maybe worth a try?
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Good idea, and it was worth a try!
Unfortunately, it didn't work. I've never used my FS7 grip, so I pulled it out of the box and plugged it into the Z200. REC button works. Zoom works. Assign Buttons work. I can use the Joystick to navigate the menus. But as far as I can tell, the rotary dial has no function. :-(
 
Doug Jensen said:
Good idea, and it was worth a try!
Unfortunately, it didn't work. I've never used my FS7 grip, so I pulled it out of the box and plugged it into the Z200. REC button works. Zoom works. Assign Buttons work. I can use the Joystick to navigate the menus. But as far as I can tell, the rotary dial has no function. :-(
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Doug, There is always a stumbling block! ☹️

Chris Young
 
Heck! Check this out. It appears to work with a host of Sony cameras. Including the FX6. It even specifically states that the iris only works with "G" designated lenses. The Z200 has a G designated lens. AT $50 it appears to be a no-brainer. It is also switchable between the Sony and Panasonic LANC protocols. I guess for that price, it's worth a go? I've purchased, from Fotga previously, dumb lens adaptors. Totally different to electronic devices, but they were smooth transactions. I think I've just talked myself into getting one to try out. :D

Chris Young

https://tinyurl.com/yvsj368c
 

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That controller looks like it would be very useful if it works with the Z200. Great find! Do you have a Z200 to check compatibility?
 
Bassman2003 said:
That controller looks like it would be very useful if it works with the Z200. Great find! Do you have a Z200 to check compatibility?
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No Bassman, sorry, no I don't. I'm interested in it for use with FX6s and FS7s. Primarily when using either the Sony 18-110 or the 28-135 mm servo zoom lenses with those bodies. Interestingly, it looks a bit like a reverse engineered early model Libec LANC control, which I have a couple of. If it's anywhere near as tough as they have been, I'd be happy. Though, they never has iris control.

Chris Young
 
How is the battery life with the included battery? I heard it ate batteries, and even when not recording but just having the camera on while looking at settings it only lasted around an hour
 
B&H reports a power consumption of 20 watts. My CX-350 uses 17 watts. So a little more but not earth shattering. Hopefully Doug has some insights.
 
The Z200 is rated at 20W and the NX800 is rated at 16W. I have no way of verifying those numbers, but it sounds right to me.
I don't normally use the BPU-35 battery, but when I put it on the camera it say 145 minutes. I have no reason to doubt that number.

Really, what difference does it make? None. :)
 
Well, after an age it arrived. The Fotga zoom demand with iris control for G series Sony Zoom lenses. First the zoom. It works surprisingly well and has quite a reasonable amount of feel / feedback over the zoom speed on the three lenses I've tried it on, quite useable. It also will control Clear Image Zoom if the camera supports that function, and it is engaged. It really does look like a clone of the Libec LANC contoller, but with the addition of an iris dial.

The iris dial. My first impression was, good, it works. Second thought was why is it not a stepless dial. It actually has fine click stops. The iris wheel is also not linear in response. Spin it fast, and the iris response seems to have little to do with the speed of dial rotation. In fact, it is very slow. But, if you use the click stops deliberately, click, click, click, the iris responds quickly to each step. So not a stepless iris. Each step on three different lenses I tried it on appears to be a 1/3" stop steps.

How it works with Panasonic cameras, which it can do via a selector switch, I don't know. But for the zoom control alone, I think it's good value at $50.00.

I now notice the new Z200 is on Fotga's compatibility list.

Chris Young
 

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Thanks for the report. I sent them an email regarding the Z200 but never heard back. I guess they got the email and checked out the Z200 which is all that really matters in the end.
 
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Update. I actually used the Fotga zoom demand unit on a job today with a Sony 28-135 mm servo zoom lens. And in doing so discovered a couple of 'gottchas'.

Gottcha #1. At one point, the zoom ceased to function, so I reverted to the slide rocker on the side of the lens to finish what I was doing. When I had the chance, I looked to see why it had ceased to work. As previously mentioned, the iris dial rotates in 1/3rd stop increments. NOW, ff you have the iris dial located between any of its 1/3rd stop detents, the zoom servo will NOT function. The iris dial MUST be on clicked onto one of its 1/3rd detents.

Gottcha #2. DO NOT try to adjust the iris dial while zooming. As you rotate the iris dial between its click stops, the zoom that's in progress will pause. As soon as the iris dial comes to rest, the zoom will continue its action.

Sony's LANC is called 'Control-L' and is described as such:

"LANC is a bidirectional serial open collector communication port, where two devices can communicate with each other. The camcorder or still video camera is able to receive commands and sends back its status."

What appears to be a limitation of the LANC protocol is that It can only handle one command string at a time. Or so it seems?

All said, though, for $50 and bearing in mind the limitations listed above, I think it's worth the $$s just for the zoom function. If you want to do a real slow creep in zoom, like I like doing on a politician who's under extreme pressure questioning, you can manage it

Chris Young
 
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