CAMCORDERS: New Sony Camcorder Z200

Idont know what to say.. so maybe nothing.

24mm is the first sony camcorder wide enough to be used as a camcorder. So well done to sony for that.

its not wide enough but it is OK, 29mm 32mm? not usable for a camcorder (a camera for tight spaces)

Ive been shooting this weekend with my C200

S35 really only sings with the1.8 lens (18-35) so getting 1in to sing is extreme.

I cant get excited about this camera or ergonomics.

And the Viewfinder at the back. why not at the side like 90s eng cameras - too much to ask to catch up with 30 year old tech!

Overall. It is horrid. i wont buy it.

But if a client gives it to me for thier job.. Ill be much happier than an older sony with 32mm and bad AF.

So well done as it seems good for conferences and boring corporate. Well done sony.
 
Doug Jensen said:
Fortunately, Sony built the Z200 to meet the needs and expectations of the rest of us. They can't please everyone.
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Ha you sound tirggered!

That is a good question 'who needs what'?.

Ive spend the last four days in the mud at a festival. Long takes, XLR mic on a wire.
Not a 'mirrorless' job.

I have my C200 in a shoulder configuration. And peddle between the 18-35 1.8 and 70-200 2.8.

Not really a wide enough FOV and spinning the lenses every three mins was super annoying.

But the 'look' is so much more appealing (and ability to 50 1.4 at night) that I would not pick up a 1in camcorder.

I had a 'trainee' with me and we had chats about what camera would do this job if we could choose any camera.

The answer was a c400and 24-105 or fx6and28-135

Camcorders looking too pedestrian and MF alexas being too heavy and hard to focus on one take actuality.

It would be nice to knock over the 28-135+FX6.. but I dont think this is good enough for that Maybe that was my point?

The 24 FOV is a huge step in the correct direction. Id like a camcorder.. with a shoulder option .

A 2/3 camera with 80% of the mass gone.. Id jump.
 
Thinking on the festival.

The C200/18mm is not wide enough
The AF is sketchy.
Finding 50p is slow.
The screen is reflective.
Hot swap batteries, good HF options, s35 'look' and a shoulder build are wonderful.


So this sony? would it be better than that. If the evf was on the side (like a 2/3 camera) then maybe it would. Otherwise I doubt it?

Im sure the AF is better, '24mm' is better than S35/18
 
morgan_moore said:
Thinking on the festival.

The C200/18mm is not wide enough
The AF is sketchy.
Finding 50p is slow.
The screen is reflective.
Hot swap batteries, good HF options, s35 'look' and a shoulder build are wonderful.


So this sony? would it be better than that. If the evf was on the side (like a 2/3 camera) then maybe it would. Otherwise I doubt it?

Im sure the AF is better, '24mm' is better than S35/18
Click to expand...

You’ve mentioned the Evf on the side configuration. There’s a significant difference between a camcorder and a 2/3” broadcast camera. They’re not the same in any way, and size/weight/balance/ergonomics make it impossible to do that way. If you had the Evf on the left side and placed the camera on your shoulder like any Eng cam you wouldn’t be able to access anything on the camera. Your arm would be bent so far back to zoom that you’d wish you were holding a 100lb camera with better ergonomics.
 
morgan_moore said:
that I would not pick up a 1in camcorder.
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Yes, we all understand nothing is good enough for you and nothing meets your high expectations. After so many years of hearing the same thing over and over again, we get it.

Here's my advice: If the task before you calls for a hammer, don't choose a screwdriver from the tool box and then complain you can't drive a nail with it. A professional knows which tool is the right one and understands how to use it in different situations. He does not make post after post about how such and such doesn't work for him. Why don't you just choose a camera that suits YOUR needs, and the rest of us will do the same. Simple.
 
morgan_moore said:
The C200/18mm is not wide enough
The AF is sketchy.
Finding 50p is slow.
The screen is reflective.
Hot swap batteries, good HF options, s35 'look' and a shoulder build are wonderful.
So this sony? would it be better than that. If the evf was on the side (like a 2/3 camera) then maybe it would. Otherwise I doubt it?
Click to expand...
Yes, if Sony put the EVF on the side it would magically address all the issues you have listed. It's amazing what the placement of an EVF can fix.

As for the reason this camera does not need an EVF on the side, see Newsguy's post.
BTW, if the EVF was on the side, then you'd jsut ***** that you can't hold it on your shoulder and look through the EVF. Complainers gotta complain.
 
Newsguy said:
You’ve mentioned the Evf on the side configuration. There’s a significant difference between a camcorder and a 2/3” broadcast camera. They’re not the same in any way, and size/weight/balance/ergonomics make it impossible to do that way. If you had the Evf on the left side and placed the camera on your shoulder like any Eng cam you wouldn’t be able to access anything on the camera. Your arm would be bent so far back to zoom that you’d wish you were holding a 100lb camera with better ergonomics.
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A 2/3" eng broadcast camera is a camcorder, as far as I'm concerned. For example, Sony describe the PMW 400 as a camcorder on their website.
 
Tim Peck said:
A 2/3" eng broadcast camera is a camcorder, as far as I'm concerned. For example, Sony describe the PMW 400 as a camcorder on their website.
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I agree. But the label we hang on a camera is not the point of the discussion. Both the PMW-400 and Z200 are camcorders. But usually we would refer to the 400 (and similar cameras) as a "shoulder-mount" camcorder. And a camera such as the Z200 might be called a "handycam" camcorder. But that distinction between camera naming doesn't change what the camera is or does, which is the point of the thread.

You could go back to Newsguy's post and insert "shoulder mount" where appropriate, if that would help it make more sense. :)
 
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Tim Peck said:
A 2/3" eng broadcast camera is a camcorder, as far as I'm concerned. For example, Sony describe the PMW 400 as a camcorder on their website.
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Yes and a smart car drives on the same road as an F350. We can be literal, but of course you get why they’re completely different…
 
Chaps to me a 2/3 camera has the evf on 'the side'

The camera is then placed on the shoulder

This is what i do with my c200 and would with an fx6 or c400
I see it as the only way to wander around an event for hours.

The sony would address some of my c200 issues..
Af is probably solid
“24” is helpfully wider than s35-18

A “side evf” would not be shiny.

I don't think “my” requirements are unique.
There has been a horrible battle for a decade in the “mid tier” with producers wanting “the narrow dof cine look” while still wanting the mobility and zoom range of a shoulder or handy camera.

Im sure this camera fits pretty well into the trade offs world. Between “cinematic” and “convenient”

A side evf could make a big convenience win

I wont buy it but would be happy to be rented it on a conference style job.
 
Nobody is saying a EVF on the side of a shoulder-mount camcorder isn't useful. It absolutely is a great feature to have, and one of the big reasons I own a shoulder-mount Z750. But my Z750 isn't a replacement for my "handycam" Z280. And those two camcorders are not replacements for my cinema cameras. And my cinema cameras arent replacements for my mirrorless cameras. They are all different cameras that have very different purposes. Yes, there are many overlapping features, but they are totally different tools. Just as a phillips screwdriver is different from a flathead screwdriver.

Likewise, the Z200 isn't a shoulder-mount camera. It is not intended to compete with, or replace, shoulder-mount cameras. It is a different type of camera altogether. It is a small, lightweight, affordable camera that meets a different set of needs than a shoulder-mount Z750 or PMW-400. Putting a EVF on the side would change it to a completely different camera, which it is not intended to be.

If the features and ergonomics of a certain camera don't meet your needs, then it wasn't designed for you. That is not a shortcoming of the camera. You can piss on it if you want to, but I suggest you just skip it and move on to another camera that has the features you want -- if you can find one. Which, based on your previous posts over the years, I doubt YOU will ever find.
 
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morgan_moore said:
Chaps to me a 2/3 camera has the evf on 'the side'

The camera is then placed on the shoulder

This is what i do with my c200 and would with an fx6 or c400
I see it as the only way to wander around an event for hours.

The sony would address some of my c200 issues..
Af is probably solid
“24” is helpfully wider than s35-18

A “side evf” would not be shiny.

I don't think “my” requirements are unique.
There has been a horrible battle for a decade in the “mid tier” with producers wanting “the narrow dof cine look” while still wanting the mobility and zoom range of a shoulder or handy camera.

Im sure this camera fits pretty well into the trade offs world. Between “cinematic” and “convenient”

A side evf could make a big convenience win

I wont buy it but would be happy to be rented it on a conference style job.
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Maybe I’m misunderstanding you. When you say you want a “side evf ” what exactly do you mean. If you mean an eyecup style viewfinder like a gratical eye, then no, that not really a plausible solution for this style of camera. At least not in the side configuration where it would sit on a 2/3” shoulder cam. It would be an ergonomic nightmare.
 
I get the feeling this just complaining for its own sake but most large sensor cinema cameras can be outfitted to be shoulder mounted and an evf. For example the FX6 has both excellent af and great image.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1617845-REG

There’s also cameras like the Ursa mini that bridge the two types of cameras.

Seems impolite hijacking a camcorder thread.
 
Wow someone got out the wrong side of bed!

I think the z200 looks good. Like my ex1 but better.

But my ex1 had a shiny screen on the side and a evf at the back that made hand hold/evf horrible.
(Yes hand hold evf works on sticks)

This 200 is not much changed.

An eng 2/3 camera had its size mass because it had to hold a vcr!

The eng lenses are costly in a way that “electronic parfocal” can sort of beat today

Now we have an opening (and tech to deliver) a small nimble cheap shoulder camera which a side evf z200 could be.

It’s the one hole in the market?
 
Peter C. said:
I get the feeling this just complaining for its own sake but most large sensor cinema cameras can be outfitted to be shoulder mounted and an evf. For example the FX6 has both excellent af and great image.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1617845-REG

There’s also cameras like the Ursa mini that bridge the two types of cameras.

Seems impolite hijacking a camcorder thread.
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I dont mean to be impolite.
I feel that the camcorder and the rigged fx6 sit in the same space nearly. And while this is nice it wont usurp the fx6.
 
morgan_moore said:
An eng 2/3 camera had its size mass because it had to hold a vcr!
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As someone already pointed out eng cameras are in that larger and longer form factor because it balances on your shoulder while allowing you to access the controls. The weight also adds stability.
 
morgan_moore said:
It’s the one hole in the market?
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I totally agree that there is a hole in the market for a missing camera -- and I've been lobbying Sony to fill that hole for more than 4 years.

There should have been a shoulder-mount version of the Z280 released around 2018. Just as the EX3 was the shoulder-mount version of the EX1, there should have been a Z380 shoulder-mount version of the Z280. There is absolutely a need for both types of cameras. I would have gladly traded my Z280 for a Z380.

As I have told Sony over and over again, a shoulder-mount version of the Z280 that looked like an EX3 would have been a killer camera and sold like crazy. Half the people that I talk to at NAB when I'm working for Sony want to know "where is the shoulder-mount version of the Z280"? And I just have to shrug my shoulders and wonder about the same thing myself.

But the Z200 is not a replacement for the Z280. And the Z280 and Z200 are not intended to be shoulder-mount cameras. So complaining that the Z200 doesn't have a EVF on the side is pointless. In fact, I feel pretty confident saying there will never be a shoulder-mount version of the Z200.

However, when a replacement for the Z280 is released in the next year or so, my fingers are crossed that there will also be a shoulder-mount version to go alongside it.

Bottom line is that I agree 100% that there is a hole for that type of camera. But the Z200 isn't intended to fill that hole.
 
Peter C. said:
As someone already pointed out eng cameras are in that larger and longer form factor because it balances on your shoulder while allowing you to access the controls. The weight also adds stability.
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Cued to the part where I attempt to make the case for shoulder-mount cameras . . .

 
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