Yeah, there’s a definite jump when clear image kicks in. It’s not usable for a live zoom.
CAMCORDERS: New Sony Camcorder Z200
- Thread starter Newsguy
- Start date
Peter C.
Veteran
I'm excited by both cameras. I just finished watching CVP "review". Here's a few of my thoughts.
- The price to features seems reasonable to me.
- Had to wait forever for Sony to release a pro level 1" camcorder (better late than never)
- I like all the physical controls except for two. First I'm not a fan of no iris ring on the lens. Handhold its more natural to put one hand on the zoom rocker while the other goes on the lens to support and work the zoom/focus/aperture without having to change your grip. Second they've split the audio controls to levels in there normal location and line/mic/phantom on the other side under the xlr ports. There are two issues. First you can't at a glance see your settings. Second once XLR cables are plugged in you can't see or easily access those controls. These aren't deal breakers just bad design.
- The Slog3 looks noisy and high base iso of 1600. Cinetone looks better suited for this camera. Both are useful for matching to FX cameras.
- The Active Stab looked bad in the CVP video
- The slow lens. They all use that variable 2.8-4.5. I think they could do better but these companies don't go out of their way in this area. I suppose a constant aperture would need to be f4 to keep the size, weight, and cost down. You just have to resign yourself to never getting a fast zoom on a 1" camcorder.
- The image quality looks the same we've seen in ever other 1" camcorder. But these camcorders still appeal to me with VND, Timecode, 4k Sdi. I prefer Sony so it be nice to move everything to Sony.
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jmone
Well-known member
I really like the form factor, flexibility (and the fact no one noticed) my old Canon XF400. Not going back to something without eVND however. The killer on this new release (for me) is the SLOG3 noise and 1600iso (I grade in HDR). Both make little sense... but let's see how other reviews goes as it's only the CVP "review" that mentions it so far. Thing is, their "review" is a sales pitch.... so if they are bringing it up, it can't be good. Firmware maybe? Who knows.
FWIW - My biggest issue with the FX6 is I keep getting stopped and have to argue that I'm not taking "commercial" video and it is a PITA. I just got back from Poland, Iceland, and Norway. I had to get a permit in Auschwitz / Birkenau, and was even stopped by a ranger in the middle of a remote Iceland National Park asking what I thought I was doing without a film permit! I can normally argue around it, but in some places (like the Taj in India - it was just a hard NO). I've now got a A7Siii that no one blinks an eye at, but I really dislike the mirrorless setup for video. Still, it is better than a phone or action cam, I guess.
FWIW - My biggest issue with the FX6 is I keep getting stopped and have to argue that I'm not taking "commercial" video and it is a PITA. I just got back from Poland, Iceland, and Norway. I had to get a permit in Auschwitz / Birkenau, and was even stopped by a ranger in the middle of a remote Iceland National Park asking what I thought I was doing without a film permit! I can normally argue around it, but in some places (like the Taj in India - it was just a hard NO). I've now got a A7Siii that no one blinks an eye at, but I really dislike the mirrorless setup for video. Still, it is better than a phone or action cam, I guess.
The more videos I see about this camera, the more it feels like an S cinetone camcorder. Slog at 1600 and noisy shadows would be a no go for me since I don’t have the time to de noise so much footage. That said, in my use case, a camcorder is strictly for straight to air shoots like sports or broadcast. I have the full frame cams for anything where I want the look and log shooting. This would be my go to camera when I need that range and can run it straight to a live u for fast paced stuff.
Peter C.
Veteran
The lack of Log performance is due to the limitations of the smaller sensor . The inclusion of log seems more for matching the same look when paired with cine cameras not as a replacement.
I assume you're getting stopped at parks because there must be a flood of people inundating these places to shoot commercial projects or stock work. We tend to only think we are just one tiny foot print but in reality people are packs of sheep and tend trample everything is good.
I assume you're getting stopped at parks because there must be a flood of people inundating these places to shoot commercial projects or stock work. We tend to only think we are just one tiny foot print but in reality people are packs of sheep and tend trample everything is good.
Bassman2003
Veteran
I did a little digging and found the manual if anybody is interested - https://helpguide.sony.net/pro/z200nx800/v1/en/index.html?cmp=gwt-
The PDF is at the bottom of the page.
I am very pleased as the camera menu does have a 16 axis color correction section. Yeah. I also noticed some very flexible mic input attenuation settings that range from -80 dB up to -30 dB. Great for accommodating hot mics. This is an area where the Panasonic CX350 fell short imho.
The PDF is at the bottom of the page.
I am very pleased as the camera menu does have a 16 axis color correction section. Yeah. I also noticed some very flexible mic input attenuation settings that range from -80 dB up to -30 dB. Great for accommodating hot mics. This is an area where the Panasonic CX350 fell short imho.
Peter C.
Veteran
I agree, I found the audio a little tricky to deal with. Took me a few projects to understand and set audio so it doesn't clip. For live events I've been running my mic and board feed into my Zoom F3 then to the camera. Allows me to fully concentrate on filming.
One other minor complaint with Z200 is no 32 bit audio. Seems like this is intended as a FX camcorder and none of the other FX cameras have 32 bit audio. I have noticed once Sony became the leader around 5 years about they've slow down both the release of new models and the improvements they offer.
From a business stand point the roll out of the FX line has worked well for them they now offer FF cinema camera FX6/9, FF cinema small camera FX3, a Super 35 FX30 and now 1" with the Z200/800. They have all sensor sizes covered in the FX cinema line.
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Bassman2003
Veteran
I have a stable of mics and all of them require a -40dB input impedance on the PX270 cameras yet the CX350 does not go that low. So as you state, they clip when things get loud. I will wait a bit for some more image quality reviews but the Z200 looks to be my replacement camera for all of the PX/CX cameras I have in use.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
My feeling is that if the Z200 & NX800 have good audio limiters, then not having 32-bit audio is more OK.
I've said before, and probably said it here somewhere, that the audio limiters on my Canon C70 are pretty decent. Not as smooth as those on my Sound Devices recorders (and also not adjustable), but useful. So if the C70 can have that, then the Z200 could too... and that could make getting decent and usable audio with the Z200 a lot easier than on similar camcorders from just a few years ago.
From everything I’ve seen and read in the manual, this camera is an FX6 in camcorder form. If that's the case, I expect that it will have the same audio limiter which is decent.
Peter C.
Veteran
The camera companies have a time honored tradition of giving the bare minimum when it comes to audio. I expect same quality of similar priced camcorders. And yes quality limiters are often more useful. Besides we know 32bit float is too expensive to put into a camera.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
Ya, I'm not saying 32-bit audio would be bad. Just not as important to me as good limiters, preamps, etc. NBD; it's an interesting camera.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I have to say audio on my Sony cameras is very impressive, especially when using Sony wireless mics. On my Z750, Z280, and FX6 I usually put audio on automatic and let the camera do the work. Never been burned yet. Four channels of 24-bit / 48Khz sound and peace of mind.
Peter C.
Veteran
Good point I have Sony wireless unit and I believe these cameras you can plug the receiver in the hotshoe powering it and inputting the audio without cables which is nice.
I've gotten burned in performance situations where there are huge extremes. I've never used auto for fear it might pump in quiet section.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I've used wireless mics and automatic level control for press conferences, panel discussions, on-camera talent, etc. and never noticed the kind of pumping I used to get with my older cameras. I think Sony does an impressive job of having their MI-Shoe and slot-in receivers communicate with the camera. I guess that's one of the advantages of having a total ecosystem (mics and camera) from one manufacturer. But even when I'm just running an on-board shotgun on automatic via XLR, the automatic level control is amazing. Better than I could do manually when working alone. One less thing to worry about on a shoot.
@Doug Jensen, we haven’t had a Sony camcorder for years. Have you had any time with this new one? Are you planning any videos for these?
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
I'm working on an in-depth masterclass right now that will be released later in the fall. But I am under NDA with Sony, so I prefer not to say anything at all about the new cameras at this time, in case I accidentally say something that isn't public yet.
Thanks for asking.
That’s great news. Looking forward to it. I pre ordered it and hoping it ships in time to use it for some NFL work this season.