Internal RAW, way more I/O, RF lenses, not having to deal with funky Sony menus / colours
New RF Mount Cinema Camera coming June 5
- Thread starter DustinSchmidt
- Start date
As a C300III / C70 owner I'm in two minds.
Don't mind the smaller XLRs (got used to these on the C70) and the FF 6k with RF mount and better AF is obviously nice, as are the additional two buttons on the handle. Appreciate the size reduction over the C300 too.
But smaller LCD, reduced DR and higher noise, as well as loss of EVF-V50 are all a shame. May end up with one anyway to make use of full frame lenses.
Side note - C300mkIII just received the smaller RAW compression options which is really nice!
Don't mind the smaller XLRs (got used to these on the C70) and the FF 6k with RF mount and better AF is obviously nice, as are the additional two buttons on the handle. Appreciate the size reduction over the C300 too.
But smaller LCD, reduced DR and higher noise, as well as loss of EVF-V50 are all a shame. May end up with one anyway to make use of full frame lenses.
Side note - C300mkIII just received the smaller RAW compression options which is really nice!
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Why on earth would the r5mk2 have internal ND?
Interesting to see that there are a lot of gripes about the c400 in the newsshooter article comments. Mostly form factor and connections related.
rob norton
Veteran
There's obviously a usb-c cable length limit for sending video, but it seems like usb-c could be handy for having the monitor tethered off camera. The longest VIDEO cable equivalent on the c200/300III/500II was ridiculously expensive and still not that long.
"significantly more metadata", I wonder what this means. I'm interested to find out how useful the new RF 17-120 is in a virtual production with unreal engine.
"significantly more metadata", I wonder what this means. I'm interested to find out how useful the new RF 17-120 is in a virtual production with unreal engine.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
My pros and cons list compared to the C300 Mark III:
Cons:
Lose triple slot record
No DGO so perhaps slightly less dynamic range
Smaller LCD screen.
Mini XLR (this seems to be the future so once my cables have transitioned over (no need for adapters) then this isn’t necessarily a disadvantage
Mini BNC for timecode (don’t know if all audio guys have that cable)
Not known yet if you can attach the same small Canon viewfinder to the back top of the camera (doesn’t look like it)
Pros:
Better autofocus
Possibly can use Blackmagic viewfinder (I wonder if it’s possible to use at same time as Canon LCD with a USB splitter cable)
6K
Full frame and Super 35
RF mount
Better low light (triple base ISO with automatic adjusting between bases (my main complaint with other cameras with dual ISO needing to spend more time switching bases))
Hot shoe that can take Tascam XLR attachment to add two more XLRs (smaller and cheaper than C300 audio modules)
Smaller and lighter
Same power draw as C300, but half the power draw of C500 while still having full frame and 6K
Audio controls on side of body
Built in WiFi control (not sure if C300 has this)
Three assignable buttons on handle (this can actually make shoulder mount balancing a short camera easier because you can put the camera further back on the shoulder while still being able to press three assignable buttons (plus the LCD buttons) without reaching far back to the main camera body)
I’d say it’s a bit of a disappointment, because four years later instead of a considerable upgrade, we get a sort of a side grade that has various downsides compared to the four year older camera, and at the same price. Overall I’d consider it’s an upgrade, but not by all that much.
Hopefully we’ll see a higher end Canon camera such as a C500 Mark III before long. I wanted 8k. Hopefully the
Cons:
Lose triple slot record
No DGO so perhaps slightly less dynamic range
Smaller LCD screen.
Mini XLR (this seems to be the future so once my cables have transitioned over (no need for adapters) then this isn’t necessarily a disadvantage
Mini BNC for timecode (don’t know if all audio guys have that cable)
Not known yet if you can attach the same small Canon viewfinder to the back top of the camera (doesn’t look like it)
Pros:
Better autofocus
Possibly can use Blackmagic viewfinder (I wonder if it’s possible to use at same time as Canon LCD with a USB splitter cable)
6K
Full frame and Super 35
RF mount
Better low light (triple base ISO with automatic adjusting between bases (my main complaint with other cameras with dual ISO needing to spend more time switching bases))
Hot shoe that can take Tascam XLR attachment to add two more XLRs (smaller and cheaper than C300 audio modules)
Smaller and lighter
Same power draw as C300, but half the power draw of C500 while still having full frame and 6K
Audio controls on side of body
Built in WiFi control (not sure if C300 has this)
Three assignable buttons on handle (this can actually make shoulder mount balancing a short camera easier because you can put the camera further back on the shoulder while still being able to press three assignable buttons (plus the LCD buttons) without reaching far back to the main camera body)
I’d say it’s a bit of a disappointment, because four years later instead of a considerable upgrade, we get a sort of a side grade that has various downsides compared to the four year older camera, and at the same price. Overall I’d consider it’s an upgrade, but not by all that much.
Hopefully we’ll see a higher end Canon camera such as a C500 Mark III before long. I wanted 8k. Hopefully the
Last edited:
Eric that's pretty comprehensive and agree with your conclusions, except perhaps noting the intro price is well under half the C500II's so that's some progress in 4 years.
Another pro - that camera is smaller, always welcome. But a huge negative for me is the loss of EVF-v50 compatibility - I always have this bolted to the C300III and love having it in conjunction with the LCD and a third larger 3rd party monitor.
The initial CVP test confirms the dynamic range is slightly worse than the C300III and its noisier. In these respects, you're losing less going from a C500II to the C400.
For me it would have been an automatic purchase if it had 2 CFexpress slots, retained the rear EVF port, and at least equalled the C300III dynamic range. As it is I may wait for next model.
Well I said it was a big IF. There has been talk of patents for internal NDs on Canon mirrorless, and recent, repeated rumors that the R5mk2 would be the follow-up to both the R5 and R5C (and possibly no R5C mk2 in devolvement).
scorsesefan
Veteran
I'm on your side with Sony colors. Although vastly improved, for almost exclusively this reason alone I sold my Sonys and jumped to Canon (c70). But most shooters who are doing fast turnaround doc and corporate stuff aren't too concerned about internal RAW and Sony has a far great selection of E mount lenses that are as good or better than RF glass. Besides the triple base ISO Canon hasn't innovated with this one. I was hoping for 8K, 17 or 18 stops of DR, EVND (Sony may hold the patent on this one?), DGO, 4 card slots (2cf express/2sd) and IBIS. Canon could have hit a home run with this one, and it still looks like a great camera, but I don't see myself upgrading from my c70 any time soon...
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Rumor website says c70mk2 is coming later this year. Not clear that there will be a higher-end camera as well. It would make sense to see something in the $15-20k range. But maybe it won't happen right away. I also feel like the upgrade cycle is slowing down for numerous manufacturers, at least for the time being.
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I just saw the C400 has a USC-C port on the back as well. If that outputs video, then you could have one USB-C port on the front for the LCD and the on the back USB-C port for the Blackmagic viewfinder (if it's compatible). Then you wouldn't have to die to go to heaven.
It would be nice if Canon releases a 4" monitor for the camera like they did with the C300 Mark II, which started out with a 3.5" monitor and later had a 4" monitor available.
Imagine a world where there were no product cycles for cameras. You start your career, buy one $10,000 camera model, retire 40 years later with the same camera, having never lost jobs for not owning the newest camera because there were no updates for cameras over those 40 years. Instead of spending $10,000 every four years and selling the old camera for $2,500, thus losing $75,000 in depreciation of buying and selling cameras, you keep that $75,000, and spend it all on your daughter's wedding, which, even though she ended up getting divorced, you're still happy that you made her extra happy on her special day by having both ice swans and live swans along with a swan boat. Basically, longer product cycles results in more profits for people who need those up to date products to run their business. One reason Arris are generally good investments.
It would be nice if Canon releases a 4" monitor for the camera like they did with the C300 Mark II, which started out with a 3.5" monitor and later had a 4" monitor available.
Imagine a world where there were no product cycles for cameras. You start your career, buy one $10,000 camera model, retire 40 years later with the same camera, having never lost jobs for not owning the newest camera because there were no updates for cameras over those 40 years. Instead of spending $10,000 every four years and selling the old camera for $2,500, thus losing $75,000 in depreciation of buying and selling cameras, you keep that $75,000, and spend it all on your daughter's wedding, which, even though she ended up getting divorced, you're still happy that you made her extra happy on her special day by having both ice swans and live swans along with a swan boat. Basically, longer product cycles results in more profits for people who need those up to date products to run their business. One reason Arris are generally good investments.
Canon have updated the ND (it’s snappier) and it does have advantages over EVND (10 stops, no weird colour shifts) so I’m personally glad they haven’t gone that route. Yes Sony has a much greater range of lenses but some of the RF lenses (24-105 2.8 / 28-70 2) are unique if you’re into them.
I agree on the RAW, mostly. I only use XFAVC for corporate work but for art projects / drama RAW is nice to have and I use it.
I see this camera as being similar to the C200, introducing some new features in a smaller, cheaper package while skimping on a few flagship model features.
I think the camera you’re talking about will come in the next 12 months, probably at double the price.
I was thinking the same. Unfortunately it seems unlikely if the brochure is anything to go by. It lists the front port as USB type C for monitor connection, and the back port as USB type C for smartphone connection.
Hope someone has a good EVF solution for this camera (that doesn’t involve losing the LCD).
What about USB-C storage?
Counter argument: the Sony 28-135mm is massively nicer to use with a follow focus? And also, lots of Burono shooters won't be using an all in one zoom.
Fingers crossed! Would be amazing if they can settle upon "a standard".
For people who want to save money by not needing a gym membership any longer, as the C400 will do that for them! But a FX6 won't.
Most "medium format" in the digital world is more like "cropped medium format" (just like how all DSLRs used to only be APS-C, and their digital sensors were small than the film cameras photographers used)
So putting a speed booster (if such a thing existed for this mythical new camera) on its "medium format" digital sensor would likely just bring it up to a "real medium format" size (by photography standards with analog film )
I'd be shocked if Canon put NDs into a stills camera (such as the R5 mk2) before Panasonic did!
And the new Panasonic GH7 didn't get NDs.
If they're not already TCS Ltd users, then it's very unlikely.
I wonder if they'll keep the C70mk2 with a S35 sensor?
Become a Sound Mixer!
(I joke, I joke, don't do that)
cpreston
Veteran
The dual card slot recording and the lack of anamorphic modes seems to be the major functional step downs from the C500. You can still dual record with the SD card as long as you aren’t doing very high bit rate or RAW. You can also choose various sub recordings and proxy types for the SD card. I’ve come to appreciate this while using the R5C which works the same way. I wish they had just gone with dual CFExpress slots since CFExpress is cheaper, but the I can imagine DIT getting confused about your primary vs sub recording and causing a far bigger headache.
I was hoping for a bigger step up from Canon, but considering this is half what I paid for the C500 II and better for my uses in every respect, it makes a lot of sense. The big question is still what is possible with the USB-C connectivity. It will be nice to have cheap cables available in any case.
I was hoping for a bigger step up from Canon, but considering this is half what I paid for the C500 II and better for my uses in every respect, it makes a lot of sense. The big question is still what is possible with the USB-C connectivity. It will be nice to have cheap cables available in any case.
morgan_moore
Major Contributor
For sure. I assume that manual focus prime lens chumps will be on an alexa or even an F55 would outdo thier needs or on some black tragic or zcam if they are not overloaded with cash.
So we need to caveat my bold statements to enclose down the use of these $10-20k cameras for high end doc or corporate coverage by basically solo operators.
On that basis its about aquiring very nice footage very quickly. So it comes down to..
the zooms available
the af quality
the mass (low please - only the 50plus will be buying these things)
being the critical factors
assuming ND xlr TC of course!
pre roll and ease of engagement of HFR and crop modes are the next elemnts to help one aquire professional footage.
Id say in that class of job the 24-105 (or 28-70/2 if I were feeling arty) and c400 would be the thing id take off the shelf, however filled the shelf.
If I were doing some travel in/on small vehicles Id have the 20-70 and Fx6.
Had luggage only? - a flillpy screen mirrorles with evf.. so anything but the c70 or fx3
rob norton
Veteran
Where the hell is run&gun, is he still locked out? We need him! I know he’s reading this. Moderators can we #freerun&gun??