New RED camera?

Paul schefz said:
Is this reduser?
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No, this is DVXuser.com

Paul schefz said:
seriously: right now neither you nor I know what the files will look like
and we also don't know when we will actually know since I doubt the camera will ship this Friday.....
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I have a pretty good hunch at what the files will look like using common sense and the current cameras available today. I agree that no cameras will ship on Friday.

Paul schefz said:
as far as scarlet and epic go, I have owned them both and scarlet is at its best compression settings (and at 24fps) what I would consider maybe a 3k camera.....perfect for HD delivery.....just like epic is a true 4K camera....
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Again, complete sentences, please! I think you are talking about Bayer sensor patterns and its in-ability to resolve what it records. That's true for RED and every other camera producer with a Bayer sensor.

Paul schefz said:
i am sorry if I can't get excited about the camera....after being in the red system for years I am a little too familiar with the promises and the seemingly multiple realities....
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Hey man, I'm not saying you should get excited about this camera. All I'm asking is that in a thread about a new camera that hundreds if not thousands of people are reading we stick to facts and not anecdotal evidence. Especially when the specs of the camera are so clear.
 
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alohype said:
Keep in mind that in clients eyes red/arri= high end, rest= lower end.
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Not really.

Corporate/Live/Doc clients (which is what every single person here actually makes money on or has to make money on) hears:
Sony/Pana: Yes, reliable video... Professional companies use these.
Arri: What's that? Oh, no thanks, too much money.
RED: Lots of trouble. No thanks.

Indie wannabe directors:
RED: Cool! Thats what I want because that's what everyone says is cool and its all, like, anti-establishment dude. Screw film (eventhough I wish I was shooting film)
Sony/Canon: Video look but good for low light
Arri: Way too much money... scares me.
 
alohype said:
Keep in mind that in clients eyes red/arri= high end, rest= lower end.
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So. I have ad agencies that contract me and when they do they demand 16bit medium format back capture for stills work. So I have to rent a whole system when I do work for them. They need top quality for all sorts of applications.

Just like when you sit in the blockbuster cinema, you're not seeing C100/Fs7/A7s stuff. Those cameras all spawned from the Canon 5dMk2 to a market that bought it up. Red is just now entering that market. And I'm sure it will be a great camera. Seriously, Raw performance that edits like a knife through butter on any decent recent computer. DNG? Pain in the ass workflow.

This camera might be really really interesting.
 
William_Robinette said:
No, this is DVXuser.com



I have a pretty good hunch at what the files will look like using common sense and the current cameras available today. I agree that no cameras will ship on Friday.



Again, complete sentences, please! I think you are talking about Bayer sensor patterns and its in-ability to resolve what it records. That's true for RED and every other camera producer with a Bayer sensor.



Hey man, I'm not saying you should get excited about this camera. All I'm asking is that in a thread about a new camera that hundreds if not thousands of people are reading we stick to facts and not anecdotal evidence. Especially when the specs of the camera are so clear.

I took some time to look at your portfolio (at least what I could find online), considering your aesthetic I don't know why any of this matters at all to you anyway.
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It's really of poor taste to attack peoples work or portfolio. You're work is really nice. But that doesn't give you license to be a.....
 
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dustylense said:
So. I have ad agencies that contract me and when they do they demand 16bit medium format back capture for stills work. So I have to rent a whole system when I do work for them. They need top quality for all sorts of applications.

Just like when you sit in the blockbuster cinema, you're not seeing C100/Fs7/A7s stuff. Those cameras all spawned from the Canon 5dMk2 to a market that bought it up. Red is just now entering that market. And I'm sure it will be a great camera. Seriously, Raw performance that edits like a knife through butter on any decent recent computer. DNG? Pain in the ass workflow.

This camera might be really really interesting.
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Completely agree. I think there's not going to be much to complain about it apart from "I can't afford it" and "it's bigger and heavier than my a7S". Exactly the same as with the FS7 and the BM 4.6K mini (and the C300 II, but that one is more exensive).

In fact I think the image quality war in the sub-$10K is over. We are way past "good enough": even people in the industry would have a hard time in a blind test with any of these and the Alexa, with identical shots ran by talented people. From now on it can only be a price war (I think BM and Sony will go ~$4K with this image quality relatively soon, 2017 at most) or a strong-point war (this one gives you 240 fps, that one is smaller/lighter, another one has longer battery life or better controls, this one does RAW, that one does ProRes, etc).
 
I took some time to look at your portfolio (at least what I could find online), considering your aesthetic I don't know why any of this matters at all to you anyway.
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TACKY! What gives you the right to publically attack another members work because you disagree with their opinion? Grow up man! So childish!
 
Paul schefz said:
Is this reduser?
seriously: right now neither you nor I know what the files will look like
and we also don't know when we will actually know since I doubt the camera will ship this Friday.....
as far as scarlet and epic go, I have owned them both and scarlet is at its best compression settings (and at 24fps) what I would consider maybe a 3k camera.....perfect for HD delivery.....just like epic is a true 4K camera....

i am sorry if I can't get excited about the camera....after being in the red system for years I am a little too familiar with the promises and the seemingly multiple realities....
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4K crop from a Red Dragon / Weapon frame set at 5:1. That's what it'll look like.
 
dustylense said:
It's really of poor taste to attack peoples work or portfolio. You're work is really nice. But that doesn't give you license to be a.....
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Agreed. I saw the post was hidden and couldn't work out why as it seemed reasonable enough...until the last bit. Personal opinions are great, personal attacks are not.
Steve
 
steve phillipps said:
Agreed. I saw the post was hidden and couldn't work out why as it seemed reasonable enough...until the last bit. Personal opinions are great, personal attacks are not.
Steve
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Totally and completely out of line on my part. I think Paul's work has an aesthetic that combines beauty shots and flares in such a way where resolution would not be a top priority.

Paul, I apologize. That was a shitty way to make a point.
 
Samuel H said:
... In fact I think the image quality war in the sub-$10K is over. We are way past "good enough": even people in the industry would have a hard time in a blind test with any of these and the Alexa, with identical shots ran by talented people. From now on it can only be a price war (I think BM and Sony will go ~$4K with this image quality relatively soon, 2017 at most) or a strong-point war (this one gives you 240 fps, that one is smaller/lighter, another one has longer battery life or better controls, this one does RAW, that one does ProRes, etc).
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The estimated time of arrival of the 10-bit internal recording is nine months, IMO (NAB'16). By 2017, the sub-$10,000 cameras should include internal SSD's and technically be capable of internal (compressed) Raw*.

*http://www.engadget.com/2015/09/22/samsung-950-pro-m4-ssd/

And, after that, it will be workflow first, higher frame rate second, low light third, price fourth. Once again, peeking a bit forward, the F5 replacement ought to have all of the above for around $20,000 ready-to-shoot.

Which brings me back to the Raven - my take is that this will damage the Red brand. There will be more Red cameras but the margins will be much lower, as the contested territory will drop from the $50,000 neighborhood to the aforementioned sub-$10,000 and that will be dominated by the major brands with their own ecosystems. And, without the aura of exclusivity, owning a Red will be rendered meaningless.
 
NO, because if it makes great images and it works none of that matters. Also the aura of exclusivity is already gone, people are selling used RED's for under 4K for the brain and sub 8K for a shooting package already. So I totally disagree with that.
 
Man, those mini-mag prices do not fit a $6k body. $850 for the smallest size (120GB). I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe reliable media has to cost that much in the era of CFast cards. I think the average person looking to buy in the $6k range will choke on paying that much for the media.

Also hope you can control the body without using RED's touch screen. I already have a great 5" monitor and a Cineroid EVF. Those would be just fine for me.

EDIT: I just looked up the specs and CFast has a speed advantage over mini-mags, too...
 
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Dafilman21 said:
NO, because if it makes great images and it works none of that matters. Also the aura of exclusivity is already gone, people are selling used RED's for under 4K for the brain and sub 8K for a shooting package already. So I totally disagree with that.
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Yeah... lol, there is zero exclusivity with RED. Anyone can shoot one for practically free. That mentality kind of died out a few years ago, the market is so saturated with RED cameras you almost need to go out of your way to avoid them. The only brand that genuinely does carry exclusivity is ARRI. It really is the only one that can genuinely impress people at this point if aesthetics and braggadocio is part of your business plan in helping to attract clients.
 
steve phillipps said:
Wouldn't it be great if we got back to a time when a product was announced once there was a warehouse full of boxed up cameras ready to ship! This is what it's called, this is what it does, this is what it costs - send us payment and we'll ship it out later today!
Steve
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That would be great! I'm starting to get tired of waiting. And on a practical side, waiting has cost more than one company sales from me. If BMD had URSA Mini 4.6k's ready to go at NAB, there'd be one sitting on my desk right now. But now there's the FS5 and RED Raven to think about, too...
 
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