New RED camera?

Morox said:
Not a big fan of the ergonomics and aesthetics of RED. They look like what Affliction is to clothing but in camera form.
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This is unbelievably accurate lol.

It's somewhat funny whereas 2-3 years ago, there was a very large difference between RED and everyone else. At this point, it genuinely does feel like nearly everyone has indeed caught up. With BMD, we get 4.6k and more film-like skintones. Sony gives us 4k in tiny little packages with IBIS, that can stabilize shots with freakin vintage lenses. Panasonic makes the cheapest 4k entry option available.

RED once had the attraction of super high resolution, but now the differences between 4k and 6k are honestly minimal. I wonder who will buy the Raven. I mean, it's certainly a stellar camera, but with so many other options and quite frankly, better looking skin tones and colors in general coming out of other cameras, it's hard to justify I think.
 
L1N3ARX said:
I wonder who will buy the Raven. I mean, it's certainly a stellar camera, but with so many other options and quite frankly, better looking skin tones and colors in general coming out of other cameras, it's hard to justify I think.
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Keep in mind that in clients eyes red/arri= high end, rest= lower end.
 
Exactly, RED and ARRI have that going for them. And to be honest the Raven really is aiming at the Mini and the FS7. So it all depends on what camera does what you want it do the best. I will say this I love the BMD image but I also like RED's image. And to me they are close enough in price that I have to look at features to see which ones mean more to me. Also spending 10K on a camera you want it to be able to make money for you and having certain cameras makes that easier. To me that is a very important feature to have, which is why I love my C100 so much. But it really is what camera works best for you because they all can be made to "look" great.
 
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Haha...

And yeah, totally. They were ahead of the curve and I remember way back when "3k for 3k" was announced (but ultimately canned), I would dream of owning a RED. Now though, I honestly couldn't care less. They make stellar gear, but there are so many other options out there that I will probably never own one.
 
Worked allot with the dragon scarlet and epic (rent). Even in 4K crop mode the image is solid. Good low-light capability (not that important for me but convenient), great DR, terrific color, menu, options, workflow and best of al is the R3D codec. I have the Blackmagic 4.6 mini on pre order and will wait for it. If I could get the RAVEN in my hands easily I would choose the Raven first base on my experience with shooting RED and BM. But even if you have the money it would get difficult to get your hands on it I guess.
 
Guys, also remember that Raven will be 3.2K camera really. Not sure what's happening on a BMD sensor by even If we're talking straight from a sensor footage after debayering it will be closer to 4K (3.7).
 
philiplipetz said:
It appears to take EF mouth lenses. No idea of what degree of interaction with lens electronics.
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Thanks. There are a lot of new lenses out these days - mostly primes - that would work with EF (and they're mostly manual, aside of Canon's own, anyway).

5:1 compression is roughly ProRes 4:2:2. URSA Mini 4K and URSA Mini 4.6K do ProRes 444, which is about a 3:1 compression. Also, 4.6 Mini will oversample into 4K. As things stand, this is going to be an FS7 competitor on the low end and C300 MKII on the high. IMO, it positions itself very well but further developments from Sony, Panasonic and Canon (ARRI will stay at the high end, JVC and Samsung aren't likely to bother and Nikon will aim for the $6,000-$8,000 range). Should Sony come out with the updated F5, it will be something to look out for.
 
L1N3ARX said:
RED once had the attraction of super high resolution, but now the differences between 4k and 6k are honestly minimal. I wonder who will buy the Raven. I mean, it's certainly a stellar camera, but with so many other options and quite frankly, better looking skin tones and colors in general coming out of other cameras, it's hard to justify I think.
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actually, the difference between 4k and 6k are huge, especially when shooting with RED...because 5 and 6K after compression and pretty hefty OLPF is more or less 4K.....
but you are correct, there is a reason arri thinks their 2.5 is plenty...once projected it is enough....i think the raven will fall right in there....at 24fps....because once you crank the compression to get 60fps or more, resolution takes a serious hit....this also won't be a low light camera by any means.....even the low light OLPF on 6K dragon has considerable noise...or texture as other people call it....
i think the under 10K price is great, this might save RED in the long run.....i would be really, really upset if i owned any red epic or scarlet right now because that entire system just took an enormous price hit.....not just the cameras but all accessories which often made up more then the body price......but i guess RED warned everybody to upgrade or....not....
i am also not sure if the kit will actually come in under 10K.....one mag probably last 15 min (if you want anything close to 4K resolution....shooting 15:1 won't provide that) and if this is anything like epic and dragon, it will eat batteries....
just like the original scarlet was a perfect entry drug to the red system so will this be....
i am really looking forward to a FS7, ursa 4.6 mini, raven shootout.....
 
alohype said:
Keep in mind that in clients eyes red/arri= high end, rest= lower end.
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from my own experience i can also tell you that in many cases showing up with a scarlet was almost worse then showing up with X,Y,Z....the raven won't get anyone excited.....dragon yes, raven, no....
 
It all depends, showing up with the Scarlet and the client wants slomo then yes you get a few wrinkled noses. But I think the Scarlet and Raven got certain clients excited because they can brag about it being shot on a RED.
 
I think a lot of bigger budget productions (which can afford a Red) want the best camera available. The C300 was often considered the best camera available for doc productions regardless of budget so became a very popular camera. And the Red Epic and Dragon were often considered the best camera available for their types of productions. But the Scarlet was always the "budget option," which on larger budgets shoots, they often don't want the "budget option." Hence why I don't think it was a very popular camera compared to the Epic and Dragon. I know as far as feature films I rarely saw the Scarlet listed but saw the Epic and Dragon used on a lot of big movies.

That's the reason I don't feel the Ursa Mini will be very popular among producers, because it too will always be the "budget option" since there are better and more expensive cameras out there that are more suitable to productions that want the best.
 
This is something I fear about the URSA mini as well and the uninformed stigma that the BMD cameras have. I think once the mini is out and if it performs correctly it will be used in higher end productions. That being said the original Cinema camera and the pocketcam has been used on big budget films but as POV/crash cams. The pocket has been used a lot more because of its size, the mini while bigger needs to find its niche on bigger sets. I can also see productions using the Raven as a POV/crash cam when the main camera is a Dragon/Weapon.
 
Dafilman21 said:
It all depends, showing up with the Scarlet and the client wants slomo then yes you get a few wrinkled noses. But I think the Scarlet and Raven got certain clients excited because they can brag about it being shot on a RED.
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I think if the producer is savvy and snobby, it can hurt you showing up with the "budget" RED camera (same with the C100 vs C300). If they're just snobby, then yeah the Red logo and it being the newest model will make 'em happy.
 
Eric Coughlin said:
I think a lot of bigger budget productions (which can afford a Red) want the best camera available. The C300 was often considered the best camera available for doc productions regardless of budget so became a very popular camera. And the Red Epic and Dragon were often considered the best camera available for their types of productions. But the Scarlet was always the "budget option," which on larger budgets shoots, they often don't want the "budget option." Hence why I don't think it was a very popular camera compared to the Epic and Dragon. I know as far as feature films I rarely saw the Scarlet listed but saw the Epic and Dragon used on a lot of big movies.

That's the reason I don't feel the Ursa Mini will be very popular among producers, because it too will always be the "budget option" since there are better and more expensive cameras out there that are more suitable to productions that want the best.
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Yup agree with all of this.

Scarlet/Epic, C100/C300, F5/F55, 6D/5D3... The list goes on and on. This Raven will be popular with the same people who love BMD stuff: those who are more concerned with using the camera themselves for themselves and aren't forced to worry about appearances. Think more young, indie filmmaker than seasoned DP for hire.
 
Fahnon said:
I think if the producer is savvy and snobby, it can hurt you showing up with the "budget" RED camera (same with the C100 vs C300). If they're just snobby, then yeah the Red logo and it being the newest model will make 'em happy.
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If your producer is snobby and savvy, you should find a new producer.
 
Yes people like Arri/Red... heck if I could afford an Alexa... that's the camera for me... s

But in the end... if you make a great film... the buyer's not going to say hey you didn't shoot on a Red or an Arri so we're not going to buy your film even if we think we'll make big money off of it...

Just use the tool you have and make it look as good as possible with a good story... good acting... good production values and good sound...
 
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