FS7: New FS7 little brother?

dmitrizigany said:
What if they go nuts and include the 5-axis in body stabilisation? That would be first for a camcorder, wouldn't it? And great for event shooters / one man crews / handheld etc which I guess are the primary target group for the camera...
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Ohhhh... IBIS would be cool!!! A smaller S35 sensor and a larger camcorder body might solve the overheating issues the A7r mk2 has.

Harry Lime said:
Interesting times.

Due to the Ursa Mini 4.6k Sony is between a rock and a hard place. A RAW / Prores recording Mini 4.6k is half the cost of a RAW / Prores FS7 rig. If the Mini 4.6k actually performs as advertised Sony is going to have a real problem on their hands, because except for high speed there aren't a lot of reasons to spend twice the money on an FS7 with an external recorder and I/O box.

But if Sony puts out a $5000 camera with specs similar to the Ursa Mini 4.6k they will effectively kill the FS7, which is only a year old. If they don't, why would you buy the Sony over the URSA (if it works)?

Tough spot to be in.
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They're aimed at different market segments, I'm sure the bulk of Sony's sales of FS series cameras are not going to people who primarily want to use raw.

Also, the URSA has quite decent enough high speed specs for most people's usual uses, so less of a reason tomget an FS7 there in most cases.

dmitrizigany said:
I think you are missing the point that it's the missing piece between A7S, FS700 and FS7. The really interesting point here is that they are including the A7S in an otherwise FS series line-up.
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A7s is the perfect small gimbal camera to match with any of those other cameras.

Ebrahim Saadawi said:
I was guessing surely the lack of XDCA-like raw output in the FS700/FS7 to the Odyssey Q7+ licence on this new camera, but your insight tells me it might come from being informed as a company there's an additional model to include in the license support:beer:

I'd be surprised if it had an SDI connection at all but your comments make me wonder :)
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I reckon at a minimum all semi pro camcorders ought to include one more SDI output!! HDMI is just too annoying
 
The Ursula is a great camera, but with the added matte box and filter trays I guess it is heavier than an F35.

Its just not in the same usability class as the FS7 or the FSx
 
Outright image quality doesn't matter if it doesn't have the basics right. Every BM camera so far has had something getting n the way of it being fit for purpose in my opinion, and for the work I do.
 
I've always really liked the output from the BMD cameras. I flirted with the idea of owning one after the FS100 and then again on the Ursa Mini before buying the FS7. I've never been able to reconcile the buggeration factors of owning a BMD but I've never ruled it out. If the FS7 was not around then I would be sat twiddling my thumbs for my pre-ordered Ursa Mini to finally arrive because the images coming out of the Ursa look sweet as.

Sooner or later BMD are going to get everything right or at least less things wrong and make a very compelling argument for buying one of their cameras.
 
Im not sure BMD get the complexity of the front of sensor work in building a proper camer.a. IR ND Moriee filtration. SonyCanon are way ahead on this bit BMD leave it to you!


S
 
I do appreciate everyone's needs and workflows are different - hence myself and Sam arguing about whether the 5Dmk3 or A7 was a professional tool or not :)

However, for me the FS7 is just about worth all the quirks and messing about and shutter bugs etc in my day to day production environment.

A BMD camera (so far) wouldn't last 5mins in the way I'm often shooting. I think they need to have someone completely redsign their range based on ergonomics and fast responsive UI.
 
I was on a shoot with URSA and it seemed the UI or menu was entirely logical compared to the FS7. Simply BM are not loaded down with crap like a paint or AWB menu and know that Tint is called Tint - again the BMC4k is very simple WB, ISO Shutter,film or video thats basically it.

I really like the design ethic of BM cameras but they just miss ND (or XLR) or are too heavy or.. well there is something wrong with them all for my needs.

BTW I dont think the FS7 is really a good professional tool either!.. or the F5/55 - Simply the 5/55 fail on HFjack positioning, lack of Centre Crop hotkey etc. They are not designed to help one do a job of work quickly. My minimal time with the Alexa it seemed to be designed by actual grown ups. Professional. Annoyingly there is no need to make cheap cameras dumb - design doesnt cost.

The FS7 is the best sub 10k camera though :)

S
 
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Agree with all of that. The FS7 is incredibly annoying but it's just about a good enough trade-off in terms of portability/image quality to put up with. I miss having a Red sometimes with instant touchscreen access to whatever I want, and one-button presets for fps/wb/gamma/audio whatever. Even if I don't miss the weight after a day of it on the shoulder!

Not shot on Ursa but was led to believe making changes still wasn't an instant one-button solution?
 
On topic, rumors say the A7s upgrade is actually not going to be A7s body and going to another form since reliable internal 4K recording cannot be achieved obviously as seen on the newest a7rII, so perhaps an FS1 form is the way they'll go.

But I doubt it, I bet this is going to have the trusted S35 11.6mp CMOS 4K sensor with base 2000 ISO, 14 stops of DR as on the FS700, FS7, F5. It just makes more sense for this type of camera sitting between the FS700 and FS7, it's a better motion sensor anyway.
 
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Ben Scott said:
Not shot on Ursa but was led to believe making changes still wasn't an instant one-button solution?
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It was B cam I was A cam. I didnt actually use it but he seemed to be able to get out of HFR quicker than me. And his HFR had audio! Menus looked simple.

its a design thing - i just want 3 or 4 knobs on a camera.. frame rate, Ctemp, angle, resolution - what else is needed?

S
 
To be honest I use all manual glass and don't own a single AF lens so it isn't something I care about, but clearly from Gen 1 to Gen 2 the quality and speed of AF has improved exponentially.

As for lenses, I can happily use EF, Nikon, Contax Zeiss, Leica or PL glass on the A7. No idea why you think it is limited.

Nobody said Mirrorless cameras are better than DSLRs in everything. I said I use an A7s professionally, that they have been used on major TV series, and that in 3 years DSLRs will be dead. Market share trends would seem to bare this out. As it stands for me, the A7 is a perfect camera for most applications, and is tiny and light.



EDIT: This was in response to Ebrahim Saadawi's post which is now changed.
 
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Ebrahim Saadawi said:
On topic, rumors say the A7s upgrade is actually not going to be A7s body and going to another form since reliable internal 4K recording cannot be achieved obviously as seen on the newest a7rII, so perhaps an FS1 form is the way they'll go.

But I doubt it, I bet this is going to have the trusted S35 11.6mp CMOS 4K sensor with base 2000 ISO, 14 stops of DR as on the FS700, FS7, F5. It just makes more sense for this type of camera sitting between the FS700 and FS7, it's a better motion sensor anyway.
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To me, Full Frame is the only thing that really makes sense. It's the only way they can lower some of the specs to not comptete with the FS7 if it's placed below it like it's been announced to be. If they just made a reduced spec version of the FS7 to meet a target price, it would have nothing new. A full frame camcorder (maybe even with IBIS) for $5499 would cause quite a stir even if it was 8bit 420 internal and sell a boat load without really competing with the FS7.
Even if it's more or less just an A7S in camcorder body with ND filters strong enough for that ISO3200 in SLog2, XLRs, FS7-like grip, viewfinder, XAVC(-S?) etc. it would pretty revolutionary and unique.

I totally expect it to be more or less an A7S/FS7 hybrid. Full Frame but with some of the higher end (raw etc) functions of the FS7 taken out. Outline looks like they've replaced the ability to attach the extension module with a viewfinder, so no raw out/timecode etc.

here's a new rumour report:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-...th-same-a7s-sensor-and-internal-4k-recording/
 
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dmitrizigany said:
To me, Full Frame is the only thing that really makes sense. It's the only way they can lower some of the specs to not comptete with the FS7 if it's placed below it like it's been announced to be. If they just made a reduced spec version of the FS7 to meet a target price, it would have nothing new. A full frame camcorder (maybe even with IBIS) for $5499 would cause quite a stir even if it was 8bit 420 internal and sell a boat load without really competing with the FS7.
Even if it's more or less just an A7S in camcorder body with ND filters strong enough for that ISO3200 in SLog2, XLRs, FS7-like grip, viewfinder, XAVC(-S?) etc. it would pretty revolutionary and unique.

I totally expect it to be more or less an A7S/FS7 hybrid. Full Frame but with some of the higher end (raw etc) functions of the FS7 taken out. Outline looks like they've replaced the ability to attach the extension module with a viewfinder, so no raw out/timecode etc.

here's a new rumour report:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr3-...th-same-a7s-sensor-and-internal-4k-recording/
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That would fit with the "New way of seeing" your world like jellyvision and #NoLimit(to the amount of gain you can wind on...)
 
dmitrizigany said:
Well, nothing's says that they can't also improve some of the A7S' shortcomings...
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It could be an interesting camera if it's closer to the FS7 in spec minus CineEI but if it's a rehoused A7s then not so much. Sony will find a way to balls it up so it doesn't compete with the FS7 whichever route they go.
 
My personal opinion is that there will never be a camera called the A7S ever again.

The A7S was a huge success and I own one myself, I love it. But speaking from a purely business perspective, this camera doesn't make sense in its current place in the product line up. It's a fantastic video camera, that can take decent stills. It's only short coming is the body it's housed in. The individuals that would purchase this camera are going to put it into a camera cage, or on rails, etc. and at that point the whole point of having a "small body" is lost and of no value to the current user. Take a look at the price jump from the A7R to the A7Rii, that thing is $4k now. If Sony follows the same path with the A7Sii they will be shooting themselves in the foot, no one is going to pay $4k for an 12MP A7Sii with in body 4k recording given all the issues with the overheating on the A7Rii. I'd rather keep my original A7s and get a C100 Mk2. Which brings me to my conclusion...

The A7S is the bridge camera for Sony to get consumers into the FS series of cameras.
 
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The A7 is a perfect Gimbal/Car-mount camera. Also fine for timelapse although not as good as its larger MP brethren. I almost never use it as an A-cam, but purely because I don't need to.
 
Ben Scott said:
The A7 is a perfect Gimbal/Car-mount camera. Also fine for timelapse although not as good as its larger MP brethren. I almost never use it as an A-cam, but purely because I don't need to.
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Too much jello for cars
no power input - stupid batteries need changing at the critical moment
hdmi out - clashes with gimbal, too stiff
only one 1/4 attachement - too floppy on cars

I wanted it to be the perfect gimbal/car cam but no.

Going for the BMC micro. - Global shutter, power in, composite out many thread points

S
 
Well, it's become a defacto standard gimbal cam for tons of outfits across the world. No rolling shutter in S35 mode. Dummy battery works fine, just like on dslrs. Tons of gimbal-frienly hdmi cables out there.

Re cars, I shoot for XCAR/CBS on occasion and have used it plenty. I believe tomorrow I will be using it on a Lamborghini Hurracan.
 
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