New Cam Decision Time

C

Captain Video

Member
Got the budget- now which camera to go with. The forum has been a great education on the HPX-170 and HMC-150. I shoot a lot of long format presentations (low light/bad lighting), interviews, and community and corporate promotional videos.

My AG-100A has served me well but customers request HD more and more.

I like the idea of the SDHC cards and am little wary of P2. My client would like to buy the SDHC cards for his archive like we do now with DV tape.

There is also a small voice in the back of my head that keeps repeating Sony HXR-NX5U, NX5U. Should I seek professional help for that voice and ignore it?

I'm learning CS5 as a big step up from Priemere Elements 3.

Any suggestions?

Captain Video
 
What makes you "wary" of P2? In most respects it's better, especially if you're going to be using CS5. (And if the client wants to buy the raw footage, give him a hard drive.)
 
My client would like to buy the SDHC cards for his archive like we do now with DV tape.
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interesting. sdhc cards are at least in the ballpark of what good tape stock would cost. and sd cards sure take up less shelf space than a stack of drives.
 
I was going to throw out a link to the "my video is corrupt on my SD card" entrys...there have been a few. But then I said Naw. Reliability of the components you plan to use is a Google away.
 
David Jimerson said:
What makes you "wary" of P2? In most respects it's better, especially if you're going to be using CS5. (And if the client wants to buy the raw footage, give him a hard drive.)
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He doesn't like hard drives for permanent storage. They all fail at one time or another. Re: P2, high cost can be amoritized and Pany just reduced prices by 30%. It just off loading the video to a permanent storage mediume he will have confidence in.

Comparing cameras, does the 170 really outshine the 150 for my needs?
 
They are both great cameras. Really your biggest considerations are workflow and budget.

Any suggestions?
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From the top:

You'll get equal performance from both in low lighting.

The HPX170 is a little more professional, overall. It can also record in SD. The HMC150 doesn't, but footage can be down converted in post.

I like the idea of the SDHC cards and am little wary of P2. My client would like to buy the SDHC cards for his archive like we do now with DV tape.
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Unless you're handing them cards straight out of the camera, that really won't make a difference either way (putting the footage on an SD card for the customer).

There's no need to be wary of the P2 card. In a nutshell:

P2 card:
+ More Reliable
- More Expensive
(-) May require a reader*
+ Larger/stronger case less likely to get lost or damaged

SD card:
- Reliability: don't skimp on quality (otherwise, your mileage may vary). Still somewhat more prone to glitches....
+ Less Expensive

The E series cards just went down in price, and you can always get good deals on used P2 cards. Since they're basically indestructible and the A & R series have a virtually limitless lifespan, used P2 cards can be a great buy.

* You may need to get a P2 card reader which can range from really inexpensive for PCs & laptops to the 350.00 AJ-PCD2 for Macs.

There is also a small voice in the back of my head that keeps repeating Sony HXR-NX5U, NX5U. Should I seek professional help for that voice and ignore it?
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Don't worry. There are medications for that now. :thumbsup:

I'm learning CS5 as a big step up from Priemere Elements 3.
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P2 will offer an easier work flow, in this case.

Best,

Jasmine Moore
Administrative Assistant
Specialized Communications / Noventri
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
jasminem@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
www.noventri.com
 
Is the 150 due for mothballing by Panasonic? It very reliable but is it going to be replaced and do newer platforms like the 170 have much more advanced electonics I should be considering?
 
The 150 is newer than the 170, at least by release date. They actually serve slightly different markets and are released from different departments within Panasonic, so the one will not "replace" the other in any case.

I don't know that the "electronics" are "better" in either camera, but I do know that the 170 records to a superior codec, and that the P2 system is far better to work with in CS5, giving you access to thumbnails, P2 metadata, better color sampling, etc. Workflow is better; color is better.

But, that may not matter if your chief concern is handing off the cards. Is that the most important factor in your decision? (I do mean that as a serious question -- choosing a camera is about priorities, and you have to define them for yourself.)
 
So right David. All things being equal in a fair assesment, sometimes its the small things that nudge you one way or the other. Thanks for you advice on the 170's codec. I'm looking for a camera to last 3 to 5 years before replacing. My 100A has done that for me and I bought it used. How old is the 170 platform?
 
dvcproHD is the 170's codec and it is an absolute joy to work with!
the first day i played with it (about 4 years ago) i sold off ALL my sd gear and havent regretted it for a second!

i dont see its "age" as being a factor in any way. unless there is some radical shift in delivery paradigm, its going to be a viable hd acquisition format for the forseeable future.

about the only drawback is handing off source footage to laypeople. you generally have to transcode it to something they can see on their "business computers"
 
Well, I'm not sure I understand what you're asking -- what do you mean by "last" 3-5 years? Do you mean the camera will hold up physically? Either will do that, no sweat, and far longer. Do you mean 3-5 years before something "better" comes along? That depends on the purposes you're using it for, as I said.

The 170 was released in 2008 (and the 150 later in 2008), but "platform" can mean a number of things; in a number of ways it's an adaption of the HVX200 "platform." In other ways, it's not, with improvements made to the original optics, processing, electronics, and the addition of some very useful tools. In that newer respect, the 170 and the 150 are pretty much the same.

All I really meant to say is, before being "wary" of P2 scares you off, explore its advantages and see if it's worth it to you, especially if you have ambitions beyond this particular client and the particular type of work you're doing now. If it's not, if being able to hand off cheap cards is the most important thing, then the 150 is likely your better choice.
 
Captain Video said:
I'm looking for a camera to last 3 to 5 years before replacing. My 100A has done that for me and I bought it used.
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Coincidently, the HMC150 has a 3 year extended warranty, and the HPX170 has a 5 year extended warranty. No moving parts!

The quality of your DVX without the tape deck / heads which are almost always the first things to wear out...

Jasmine Moore
Administrative Assistant
Specialized Communications / Noventri
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
jasminem@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
www.noventri.com
 
the perceived higher cost of P2 is kind of an illusion. if you shoot professionally and on a regular basis. it will pay for itself quickly in the time saved not having log and capture tape.
that argument doesnt stand up when you compare p2 to sd cards. but in that argumentthe question becomes one of reliability in the field. another place where p2 will win.

about the only solid argument for hmc150/sd cards is if you do a lot of long form (weddings, events) and you need to roll for several hours at a time and simply cannot justify the cost of a pair of 32/64g p2 cards
 
David Jimerson said:
If it's not, if being able to hand off cheap cards is the most important thing, then the 150 is likely your better choice.
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If he's giving them the cards straight out of the camera, sure.

If he's editing the footage before copying it to an SD for the customer, then it really wouldn't matter if it originally came from an SD card or a P2 card. Either way he will need new SD cards for the customer, whether he's keeping his cards (P2 or SD) separate or replacing them (SD) each time.

Respectfully,

Jasmine Moore
Administrative Assistant
Specialized Communications / Noventri
20940 Twin Springs Dr.
Smithsburg, MD 21783-1510 USA
800-359-1858 (US)
301-790-0103
Fax: 301-790-0173
jasminem@spec-comm.com
www.spec-comm.com
www.noventri.com
 
Spec-Comm said:
If he's giving them the cards straight out of the camera, sure.

If he's editing the footage before copying it to an SD for the customer, then it really wouldn't matter if it originally came from an SD card or a P2 card. Either way he will need new SD cards for the customer, whether he's keeping his cards (P2 or SD) separate or replacing them (SD) each time.
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I entirely agree; it's just that he said earlier that he wanted to give the client the raw footage SDHC cards specifically.
 
Its hard to go wrong with the HPX170. I made the move from the Panasonic DVC30 tape cam in 2009. I had some of the same concerns that you had but I am really happy with my decission. With the HPX170 prices coming down and lower prices on P2 media, now is a great time to buy. Add to that the flood of used HPX170s as well as used P2 cards all equal great deals. Granted the HPX170 dosen't shoot as much detail as the Sony EX1r or some of the DSLR's, but it produces very good HD for the web when encoded properly and fantastic imagery when brought down to SD DVD l. It is one of a dying breed of CCD cameras, but you will never have a problem with rolling shutter. I have never had an issue with corrupt data files. The 5 year warranty (although non transferable) is one of the strongest in the industry. I can see myself keeping the camera for many years to come. I may someday get a DSLR as an additional cam but what's out there now comes nowhere close to the versatility of the HPX170.

I have only two beefs with the cam. First, the zoom speed at its slowest is still to fast for my needs. My old DVC30 could do smooth zooms at a "crawl" speed. Due to the HPX170's design, a remote controller will not allow you to go any slower. Second, the 13x lens is a little short for me. I wish it was 16x.
 
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David Jimerson said:
I entirely agree; it's just that he said earlier that he wanted to give the client the raw footage SDHC cards specifically.
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+1. The benefit of just passing off the 'raw' sdhc card to a client may save time, but I would think most clients would want a file format they are familiar with(quicktime/avi), and a raw copy of mts files for backup. I just think most gigs would end up with a transcode anyway. I love my 170, 4:2:2 is a major benefit for post-process coloring & greenscreen work.
 
Mark Williams said:
Its hard to go wrong with the HPX170. I made the move from the Panasonic DVC30 tape cam in 2009. I had some of the same concerns that you had but I am really happy with my decission. With the HPX170 prices coming down and lower prices on P2 media, now is a great time to buy. Add to that the flood of used HPX170s as well as used P2 cards all equal great deals. Granted the HPX170 dosen't shoot as much detail as the Sony EX1r or some of the DSLR's, but it produces very good HD for the web when encoded properly and fantastic imagery when brought down to SD DVD l. It is one of a dying breed of CCD cameras, but you will never have a problem with rolling shutter. I have never had an issue with corrupt data files. The 5 year warranty (although non transferable) is one of the strongest in the industry. I can see myself keeping the camera for many years to come. I may someday get a DSLR as an additional cam but what's out there now comes nowhere close to the versatility of the HPX170.
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+1
 
Current 150 owner, thinking of trading up to a 170. I want the reliability and the 422 color space for broadcast acceptability. But I'm still teetering on the decision. If I sell the 150, buy a used 170, I'll end up spending an extra 1500, after buying p2 cards. And then the panasonic warranties aren't transferable (darn!), which makes me consider a new 170. But that would bump up the costs quite a bit. Anyone have any advice on this?
Signed, nervous
 
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