New article on camcorderinfo.com

carlone said:
Hey David, why would this offend you? Wouldn't you say it's a fair statement to say that it's not "just" the price of the camera but it's the cost of the very expensive but required add on's that make it difficult for many people to make the jump. Just look at the DVX forum and you'll see many people making this very same observation.
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I neglected to add the word "not."

I was not offended by that.

I was concerned that there was no support for the statement that I quoted.

If you read my post carefully, you'll see what I objecting to.

I've since corrected the sentence.
 
i will say, if i was inclined to get a Canon HDV camera (i'm perfectly happy with my HVX and i feel it has no true competition in the price range) i have to say... 3999.99 for something that sony does not as well for 5499.99.

let's give credit where credit is due, that's a staggeringly low price tag for a prosumer HD camera with those type of features and glass. i can't knock canon on that camera at all... damn son, if i didn't have the money to get my HVX and that thing was out, i'd prolly seriously consider it more than any of the other options.

the real issue though is; it's not out yet, and it won't be for a long time. what's the difference then? especially if you have payed work to do. can't shoot a job on a camera that doesn't exist yet.

3999.99 for an HDV camera with canon glass and the same imager as the H1, that's pretty damn good though i think.
 
Concerning the article, I think it is a well written piece trying to find the place where the Canon G1 fits in the market. Of course, being an HVX owner and happy user, I do find the Panasonic camera analysis a bit disappointing, but so is the analysis of the other cameras from the other brands. They are there simply to give a perspective of where the Canon camera fits in the market, probably in a Canon Marketing department perspective.

The A1 sure is a nice camera, and probably something to consider as a "B" camera for our HVX's. Its also a viable option for documentary making. However, it uses HDV, which means different requirements for us with a dvcpro hd workflow. As for the G1, I sincerely feel that it is just too close to the Xh1 to consider. the price difference is just minimal.
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
what do you think of the new canons with respect to the HVX200?????
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If you're talking to me, than I would say that, if the footage and end results look similar to the XLh1, its a nice camera, but lacks true progressive, has a smaler dinamic range and a gamma that's a bit far (this is subjerctive) to the nice organic cine-look of the HVX. . Colour wise, its not in the same league as the HVX. Its, however, definetly sharper and a lot less expensive to archive, tough. A solid camera. But no HVX contender. That, at least for me, is the upcoming JVC HD250. (on the price range, of course. Red and the other one supported by Cineform are in a whole diferent championship altogether...)
 
Cees Mutsaers said:
what do you think of the new canons with respect to the HVX200?????
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The HVX´s main selling point for us was the DV50 option.
HD wise it was the variable framerates.
No HDV cam offers this so far.
The A1 will probably be the best HDV deal in the market when it comes out.
Budget wise the GL2 was the better VX2000 "back in the days" - but I´m pretty sure Sony will come out with a FX2 anytime soon.
More as a matter of the company´s image than its market share.
 
No,

From the reports, the usable res of the HVX is app 540H PPH X 540V progressive.
That is exactly the results i got from my HVX.

The XLH1 is 800H PPH X 540V (progressive).

The HVX won't record 800H PPH res lines even with detail +7.

The sharpeness is a process that enhances visibility of details.
It just makes the image look "sharper", not nessessarily more defined.

In fact, too much detail enhancement looks horrible.
 
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Camcorderinfo.com? Haha, what I want to know is..... who still calls thier equipment a camcorder? When I hear the term "camcorder" I think of a 1999 wallmart camera that records little billy's baseball game. I was curious if anyone uses the term casually to refer to thier HVX. Dictionary.com states the definition of camcorder as: "A self-contained unit of communications equipment made up of a lightweight, hand-held television camera and a videocassette recorder."

With solid state P2 the HVX is only a half breed of camcorder. With the tape deck being the bastard half of the HVX design, I would tell camcorder.com that the HVX is outa thier league! Cuz it ain't no camcorder! :)
 
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Cees Mutsaers said:
what do you think of the new canons with respect to the HVX200?????
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The A1, seems too good to be true. Canon's cameras tend to cost more than anyone else so I really am trying to figure out how they plan to offer this thing, with supposedly the same capabilities as the XLH1, simply missing the interchangible lenses, SDI, and genlock for less than half the price. It just doesn't go with their previous business practices. I really am scratching my head as to how they could afford to put the A1 out at $4000 as it would apparently blow away the Sony Z1 and JVC HD100 in nearly all categories yet manage to be over $1000 cheaper. I'm sorry to sound like a skeptic but something just doesn't add up.

But, for a moment, let's assume that the A1 do what it says it's going to do, have the same image quality as the H1 (minus interchangible lenses and SDI output) and retail for a price of $4000. For that price, that's one of the best deals I've ever seen. As far as which I'd rather have however, I'd still go with my HVX200.

Image wise, the Canon will be sharper. I've paid a lot of attention to the various tests on the under 10k cameras and most seem to indicate the following: The HVX200, the Z1, and the HD100 all are pretty comparible in terms of actual detail processed. The HD100 appears sharper but this is actually due to having far more edge enhancment. The Canon XLH1, on the other hand, appears to ligitimatly have greater detail that is not due to edge enhancment. It's just a sharper camera. Now, this is a nice thing and, if the A1 retains it, would be very tempting. That said, resolution isn't the most important thing in a camera and I think the HVX200 looks to beat the pants off the A1 in most other respects:

1. Better Colors-Not only do Pansonics colors and image quality look more natural and filmic, DVCProHD offers twice the color depth as HDV which not only makes things look better but gives you more CC options in post.

2. Better Motion-HDV carries with it interframe encoding which means that many frames are generated. This not only leads to image breakup but also requires more processing power to edit in post.

3. Better Gamma (opinion)-I, and many others, find the HVX200 has a much more film-like gamma curve. The XLH1's can be tweaked but I've yet to see it produce something on par with the HVX200 (to my eye) and thus figure the A1 will likely be the same.

4. Better Sensitivity and Higher lattitude-Just what it says. The HVX200 can record with less light and can record a larger range of lights and darks.

5. Variable Frame Rates-True slow motion and fast motion. The ablity to have a pure 24 frames a second through native mode that saves space and makes life so much easier in editing.

6. P2-No more digitizing. No more worrying about dirty heads or heads breaking down. Instant clip access so you know what you got and can delete it on the spot if short on space.

There are also a few things that make the XLH1 irritating that the A1 looks to have as well.

1. 24f-Not true 24p but a method of doing it by interlacing the fields and thus losing resolution.

2. 24f not supported by most NLEs.

3. 24f not supported by any decks or other cameras so one has to use one's camera to capture.

I realize I came down as negative here but the possability of the A1 actually is quite exciting. If they can really deliver such a camera for that price (something I just don't understand), then it'll certainly be the best deal for the money of the under 10k cameras. That said, I'd still rather shoot with my HVX200.
 
It is not a camera issue it is a format issue. DVCPROHD beats HDV everyday of the week it is just simple math 25 bit vs 100 bit. If canon would ditch the tape and go solid state then they would have something, not an hvx but something.
 
I can see why some people might not be into the P2 format. But in my opinion it's not the price of the P2 cards that needs to come down. It's the price of all these hard drives I keep buying to store my footage that should come down.

Tape will obviously become obsolete, and by embracing the P2 format we only make it happen faster. So im glad to be a part of the future and not rehash the past.
 
". . . it is hard to imagine the HVX200 suddenly taking flight."

Hee hee. I know. The sales of the HVX have been so poor. :Drogar-Thinking(DBG
 
If the A1 lives up to its potential, I think it'll make a great 2nd cam. Not a B cam mind you. I like the idea of having the HVX for narrative work and the A1 for shooting the great outdoors.

When shooting nature I want to see background detail that I haven't yet seen from the HVX. I also want to be able to carry one spare tape and nothing else. With the HVX I'll have less than 10mins record time for this type of shooting (can't afford/won't pay for more than 1 4g card), and that's just too limiting.

If the A1 does live up to potential I'll be feeling like the cat that got the cream.
 
=Prodigy= said:
Camcorderinfo.com? Haha, what I want to know is..... who still calls thier equipment a camcorder?... With solid state P2 the HVX is only a half breed of camcorder. With the tape deck being the bastard half of the HVX design, I would tell camcorder.com that the HVX is outa thier league! Cuz it ain't no camcorder! :)
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Amen!!!!
 
Rambos said:
I can see why some people might not be into the P2 format. But in my opinion it's not the price of the P2 cards that needs to come down. It's the price of all these hard drives I keep buying to store my footage that should come down.

Tape will obviously become obsolete, and by embracing the P2 format we only make it happen faster. So im glad to be a part of the future and not rehash the past.
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A 400 Gb SATA drive runs about $120.00 if you shop.

What are you paying?
 
David S. said:
A 400 Gb SATA drive runs about $120.00 if you shop.

What are you paying?
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That is a good deal. Any particular vendors you like? I usually just walk into BH or JR and pick up the Maxtor 300gb drives for about $140.

I'm shooting long form so space goes quick. What I really want is a 10 Terabyte drive for $140. ha
 
Rambos said:
That is a good deal. Any particular vendors you like? I usually just walk into BH or JR and pick up the Maxtor 300gb drives for about $140.

I'm shooting long form so space goes quick. What I really want is a 10 Terabyte drive for $140. ha
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Don't kill me, but this is my archival solution for now:

I shoot everything in 1920x1080, convert it to Windows Media Video HD at between 75 to 90% quality, and keep _those_, not the MXF or whatever files. I do storage on DVD-RAM cartridges Type 2 from Verbatim (It even says "Professional DVD-RAM" on them), so I can fit about one hour of good quality HD footage on one disc. And I have everything in double, so I have an archive series "A", and an archive series "B". DVD-RAMs are more or less the most reliable medium for digital storage you can get for a reasonable amount of money, they are not very expensive. I don't know yet if I will also loose all additional color information besides compression loss and single frame storage and what is more, but looking back from a not to distant future I would like more to have 100 hours of footage in good quality, where 99% of the people on this earth will never find it to be bad quality, than having 5 hours in original quality. Sure, you can still lose your data, but you could also get hit by a car today while crossing the street...
 
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