FS7: ND Filters: What are you using.

Thank you, Lenny. I was leaning that way just because it falls in the middle but wanted to be sure before ordering anything. I also appreciate the info on the neutrality of the Firecrests.

Sorry if these are very basic questions but I am just now venturing into external ND instead of relying solely on built-in ND. Based on a lot of the stuff I shoot I feel like the graduated filters are going to be extremely useful and one of the biggest improvements I see from going to external. Thanks again.
 
I'd echo that a 2-stop soft edge grad is probably the most often used out of my grads, followed by a 3-stop.

I'd also say to ignore anyone who thinks a Da Vinci Resolve power window grad effect is anything like doing it in-camera. Lots of people these days rely on a camera's latitude and then go to fix it in post, but that misses the effect a grad can have on a scene and obviously you cannot grad ND info that is lost.
 
Thank you too, Ben. Looks like I'll be ordering a 2-stop soft graduated today.

I was thinking that "in-camera vs grade" would give better results and that's what started me down this path but obviously I hadn't had the chance to see for myself yet so I'm glad to hear others confirm it.
 
Ben Scott said:
I'd also say to ignore anyone who thinks a Da Vinci Resolve power window grad effect is anything like doing it in-camera. Lots of people these days rely on a camera's latitude and then go to fix it in post, but that misses the effect a grad can have on a scene and obviously you cannot grad ND info that is lost.
Click to expand...

I completely agree that using grad filters to control exposure in-camera is a very different thing to using DVR or other software to apply exposure corrections in post. However I think you're slightly mythologising the 'old school' way of doing everything in camera. IMO both approaches have pros and cons. Whilst using a grad ND has the benefit of bringing the sky-tones into the 'fat' section of the log gamma curve, it also has the disadvantage of potentially dropping portions of the horizon detail (hills, treetops, etc), down into the irretrievable shadow portion of the curve. It's pretty rare (and boring) to find a scene with a completely linear or evenly gradated exposure shift, so using a linear-grad ND is always going to be a best-fit exercise.

Doing it in post has three potential advantages in my mind. Firstly you can draw more precise masks to avoid 'burned' treetops/buildings/hills. Secondly you can track these masks if you happen to want to pan or tilt into the scene. Panning could work with a grad, but tilting definitely wouldn't. Thirdly it's non-destructive. If you decide in the edit that your grad-ND shot looks a bit over-cooked, and want to decrease it's effect, then good luck with it!

I think that (yet again) it's a case of horse for courses really, and it depends on the shot, and on who's doing the post! The only grads I personally end up using are soft edge 1-stop, which will then be strengthened with power windows in the grade.

Interesting discussion!

jason
 
jasonbrooks, you made most of the points I was about to! I'll add that you can dial in the amount of feather as opposed to having to carry multiple styles of grad (soft, hard etc).

I will also point out that for most shots that a grad could possibly be used, which is to say minimal camera movement especially tilt, it's often the case that one can shoot a subsequent sky exposure pass where you stop down the exact amount you prefer (akin to choosing the specific strength of ND with the grad) and marry the two shots in the grade.

Most of the time over the past 10 years that I've tried to use a grad, I end up having to bail because something about the way the shot develops preclude it (some important piece of action crosses the sky area, or a tilt). I rarely order them any more.

The main advantage I'd see at this point is if one does not have control of the grade, especially when turning in footage and never touching it again. In this case it may be worth it. I've certainly been in the situation of shooting the sky pass, having scripty make note of it, sending notes to the post dept. with my intention and asking them to add it as an asset at the end of an edit so the colorist will have access to it...and then getting to color and asking for it and everyone's like "whaaaaaa?"
 
I've never found a use for attenuators because the cover the whole frame, but I would be interested to know how some people use them. I also by the way find both a Coral or warming Grad and a Blue Grad can be very useful for sunsets and the blue can often make a grey sky look convincingly like scattered clouds against blue. The "Sunset Grads" often look absurd to me but that's just my taste.
Incidentally a neutral grad or even 2 placed over each other in different directions can often make an exterior interview pop.

Any suggestions here for a reasonable priced neutral 4x4 Pola and is there any need for or can one even buy a 4x4 circular polarizer?
 
I love the idea of the duelling grad filters. Will have to try that...
I'm also a big fan of the blue grads. If I'm travelling light I'll just bring an ND.6 grad, a blue grad and a polarizer. It can really make a grey drab sky a lot more pleasant, and it's the kind of addition that I seldom see happen in post.
I don't see any reason for a circular polarizer unless there's something between the lens and the sensor (such as a partial mirror or a beam splitter for a 3-sensor camera.) As far as I know, all the circular polarizer does differently is de-polarize the light after it's been filtered by the pola part. Of course I also can't think of any reson why tit couldn't be produced as a 4x4...
 
Dueling polarizers typical : interview subject on the Right, grad 1 on the left so the subject stands out especially against a bright background and grad 2 on the bottom to bring down distracting clothes or other part of the image . Works beautifully, but its should never look like you did anything at all.
 
Well yes there are times when a situation precludes the use of grads. Likewise there are times when to grad in post leaves you with little wiggle room to recover detail.

I'm not really one to mythologise this stuff. I just like grad filters and non digital diffusion :)

I actually find myself using light-ish grads to give me a start point for more dramatic grades later - they also tend to be a lot more forgiving or foreground action coming into its area of effect.

Ignore the grade on this - was a very early FS7 test and the final piece was a lot nicer. But an example of using a 2-stop soft edge to bring a bit of drama in for pushing a bit later

Lamborghini Huracan - Screen grabs and test grades by Ben Scott, on Flickr

Likewise the same here on an old Scarlet-MX frame

The Beast of Rainham Marsh - Still from R3D by Ben Scott, on Flickr
 
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