FS7: ND Filters: What are you using.
- Thread starter Liam Hall
- Start date
icarusfilm
Veteran
Formatt Hitech Firecrest ND's they are the best there is right now.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
The Firecrest's are great, but word of caution, Grug got a set, & some were incorrectly marked. Believe Format-Hitech is UK based so if there's an issue it may be easier for you to remedy.
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David W. Jones
Veteran
A couple of the newer offerings which have received positive test results are the Tokina Pro IRND, and the Schneider RHOdium FSND filters.
jasonbrooks
Well-known member
Out of interest, what are you using these for? Obviously to cut exposure, but do you find you need additional ND over your internal capabilities, are you looking for graduated filters, or do you find that the internals produce colour shifts or IR contamination?
Thanks,
jason
Liam Hall
Veteran
Yes, used those. Very expensive though.
Duly noted, thanks Bern.
Nothing to do with grads, purely looking to reduce exposure and avoid colour shifts and IR contamination. Six stops of dodgy internal ND doesn't always cut it, fine for run around basic photography, but not good enough for high end work or work in very bright conditions where shallow depth of field is required on a fast prime. For example, two of my recent shoots in India yielded very different results, one using Canon Cine primes and Tiffen Pro 4x5.65 ND filters and one using Sigma ART Primes and cheaper screw-in Tiffen ND. Neither were satisfactory but oddly the cheaper ones yielded superior results.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Have you compared them to anything else? Also, what's the most ND you have had on there? I find anything above 2.1 and I'm struggling.
Clermond
Veteran
I have the 4x4 filters but the 4x6.5 should be the same. I have them in 0.3 / 0.6 / 0.9 / 1.2 Unfortunately 1.2 is the strongest they offer. If you need more density you need to stack them but stacking mirror filters is not the best idea, since you may get some reflections between them. You would need the mirror in front and a regular ND behind.
I compared them 2yrs ago with the Formatt Hot Mirror IRNDs. The Skiers worked very well with the BMPCC (probably the BMCC too). They kill all the red-brownish overcast there is and get the image back to neutral, even better than without any filter. Maybe a tad of green but that's easy to handle in post. The Formatt Hot Mirror IRNDs were not strong enough for the BMPCC, they leave quite some red, while they are perfect for the RED Scarlet/Epic MX. The Skiers are a bit greenish/cyan on the RED cameras, I suppose the crossover frequency is lower or they are simply stronger. No "one size fits all" here.
I use the polarizer very often for studio still shots on a Canon 5DM3/4 and Penatx 645z in a 4x4 filter holder with a 77mm thread adapter. No visible difference between shots w/wo filter, no color cast.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Thanks Clermond,
I'm well aware of not stacking hot mirrors, I use them when I shoot with Red Epic. And yes, different NDs work with different cameras, that's why I'm interested to hear from people using external ND with their FS7. I'm frankly surprised more people don't use it.
It could be that a 1.2 is all I need if used in conjunction with either the crappy internal ND or some regular 4x5.65 or 4x4.
I'm well aware of not stacking hot mirrors, I use them when I shoot with Red Epic. And yes, different NDs work with different cameras, that's why I'm interested to hear from people using external ND with their FS7. I'm frankly surprised more people don't use it.
It could be that a 1.2 is all I need if used in conjunction with either the crappy internal ND or some regular 4x5.65 or 4x4.
Liam Hall
Veteran
I see David's post here has been down voted. Why is that? I've read good things about both of those filters, does someone have some experience they want to share??
Nirv
Carbonite Member
Liam,
I did a tiny bit of testing of ND filters as I wanted a 1 and 2 stop screw on just to shoot on a fast lens on a bright day with the FS7 internals. I found that these 'great
' ND filters regularly recommended on this forum like Schneider, NiSi, firecrest to be distinctly underwhelming. They ranged from heavy magenta cast to green casts and IIRC the NISI was very cool.
In terms of image quality, apart from the casts, I couldn't see a difference at all looking at 4k XAVC-I which surprised me given the rave reviews. In fact some old cheapo Tiffen NDs which I've had kicking around for the last 10 years were more neutral and just as good image wise. I concluded there's a lot of snake oil in this market.
I did a tiny bit of testing of ND filters as I wanted a 1 and 2 stop screw on just to shoot on a fast lens on a bright day with the FS7 internals. I found that these 'great
' ND filters regularly recommended on this forum like Schneider, NiSi, firecrest to be distinctly underwhelming. They ranged from heavy magenta cast to green casts and IIRC the NISI was very cool.
In terms of image quality, apart from the casts, I couldn't see a difference at all looking at 4k XAVC-I which surprised me given the rave reviews. In fact some old cheapo Tiffen NDs which I've had kicking around for the last 10 years were more neutral and just as good image wise. I concluded there's a lot of snake oil in this market.
Liam Hall
Veteran
That's strangely similar to what I have found. Though, I'm shooting with 7-8 stops of ND. I have some old Tiffen screw-ins that work fine on the FS7 when using DSLR lenses, but when using grown-up cine lenses I've been getting some weird colour shifts. I'll try and find an example.
Liam Hall
Veteran
These two pics show what I'm talking about. First and third are Canon Cine Prime with Schneider 4x5.65 filter and the internal ND combining to 2.5ND and the second one taken a few minutes later was a Canon 70-200 with a screw-in Tiffen and internal ND dialled back to 1.8ND to avoid the obvious colour shift and the fourth is a Sigma 150-600 with just internal ND.
Luckily, these graded fine, so no drama in the end.
Luckily, these graded fine, so no drama in the end.
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icarusfilm
Veteran
I have had similar horrible results with Schneider 4x4 0.9 NDs.
The best results I have had with screw ins was with B+W MRC NDs
The best results I have had with screw ins was with B+W MRC NDs
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
My go-to IRND's for the past few years have been the Mitomo True ND's, which for a long time were the only ones that maintained consistent color temperature across the range (I had tested the Firecrest filters a while back and wasn't satisfied with them in this regard). However, they are expensive and very delicate. Tiffen is about to introduce their new line of ND's that will rival those but offer much better durability, which I'm looking forward to.
Liam Hall
Veteran
Thing is, different NDs react differently with different sensors. What works on camera A might not work on camera B. Also, what is supremely odd, today, I tried to recreate the above colour cast using my Sigma primes, internal ND and my ancient screw-in Tiffen filters - shots looked fine, even with 11 stops of ND. I'm beginning to wonder if the lens coating is affecting the outcome or indeed, matte box vs screw-in.