FS7: ND Filters: What are you using.

Liam Hall said:
It could be that a 1.2 is all I need if used in conjunction with either the crappy internal ND or some regular 4x5.65 or 4x4.
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Thanks for your previous response Liam, although I'm still very curious. What do you mean exactly by 'crappy' re: the internal NDs? If you just mean 'insufficient', then I completely understand. If however you find them crappy in other ways, then I'd be very interested to know how, because I've never noticed any casts or other problem whilst using them.

Given that you're still stacking them though, I imagine it may just be 'insufficient'!

Cheers,

jason
 
markfpv said:
also wondering if on #1 & #3 shots with the canon cine primes posted above - you might have also possibly had odd flare reaching sensor ? those look more back-lit than the other two samples... just a thought...
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I've wondered that too. Difficult to judge as virtually everything I shot on that job was backlit!

jasonbrooks said:
Thanks for your previous response Liam, although I'm still very curious. What do you mean exactly by 'crappy' re: the internal NDs? If you just mean 'insufficient', then I completely understand. If however you find them crappy in other ways, then I'd be very interested to know how, because I've never noticed any casts or other problem whilst using them.
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I'm probably being a little unfair using 'crappy' to describe the internal filters. In truth, I find the ND64 loses detail and colour accuracy and I try to avoid using it, but there's no doubt the internal filters are convenient. Often, I shoot with a fast prime with a speed booster, so if I'm somewhere hot and sunny I might need 8 or 9 stops of ND, so will always need to add to the internal ND.
 
I wonder how the variable ND works in these situations .. day Ext 7/8 stops ND.. if it will make the need for extra ND,s redundant ..
 
Liam Hall said:
Thing is, different NDs react differently with different sensors. What works on camera A might not work on camera B. Also, what is supremely odd, today, I tried to recreate the above colour cast using my Sigma primes, internal ND and my ancient screw-in Tiffen filters - shots looked fine, even with 11 stops of ND. I'm beginning to wonder if the lens coating is affecting the outcome or indeed, matte box vs screw-in.
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I've just been testing the new Sigma cinema lenses, and they have a distinct magenta cast to them. So it's possible the magenta from the lenses was cancelling out the green cast of the Tiffen NDs, and resulting in a relatively balanced image.
 
CharlesPapert said:
My go-to IRND's for the past few years have been the Mitomo True ND's, which for a long time were the only ones that maintained consistent color temperature across the range (I had tested the Firecrest filters a while back and wasn't satisfied with them in this regard). However, they are expensive and very delicate. Tiffen is about to introduce their new line of ND's that will rival those but offer much better durability, which I'm looking forward to.
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The Mitomos are what is used for the Alexa NDs aren't they?

Agree with you re Firecrest in that QC appears to not be as stringent as when they first came out.
 
Donny 123 said:
I wonder how the variable ND works in these situations .. day Ext 7/8 stops ND.. if it will make the need for extra ND,s redundant ..
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The variable NDs are based on two polarizers. It's a nice idea but these filters have some points you have to consider: like every polarizer you will have ugly interference on acrylic glass or multi layer glass. see attached sample. I was testing a Heliopan vari-nd on the Skier test with the BMPCC. The BMPCC suffers a lot from moire but with the Vari-NDs it was less than with the Skier. Obviously it softened the image. And last, these two glasses in the vari-nd cannot be removed. After some months on a GH3 I found the glass surface inside a little bit greasy. I have no idea how that happened and the filter was replaced by Heliopan. I have ND filters from Heliopan for my still cameras in many sizes and many density for years and I am very satisfied with them - but the vari-nd is the only one I would not recommend.

interference.jpg
 
Sorry I meant the Variable ND system in the fs7II and fs5.. which is totally electronic through one piece of glass I think..
 
Grug said:
I've just been testing the new Sigma cinema lenses, and they have a distinct magenta cast to them. So it's possible the magenta from the lenses was cancelling out the green cast of the Tiffen NDs, and resulting in a relatively balanced image.
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Interesting thought, I'll test this next week if I get time.
 
Donny 123 said:
Out of interest..Why would that be preferable to variable ND.. ? in Cine EI your grey level would be going all over the place.. ?
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With variable ISO, grey would remain consistent, it's like changing a magazine of film. Expose according to ISO. Easy.

The problem is modern cameras have such high native ISO, which is good thing much of the time, but not when using primes on a sunny day. The least number of things in the optical path the better, in my book, particularly when you have to use heavy filtration to achieve your desired exposure - colour casts and lack of sharpness can become a real issue, and not just for pixel peepers. In general, I'm not a fan of variable ND, though I haven't used the FS5, so can't comment on its implementation there - they may have cracked it for all I know.
 
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Liam Hall said:
With variable ISO, grey would remain consistent, it's like changing a magazine of film. Expose according to ISO. Easy.

The problem is modern cameras have such high native ISO, which is good thing much of the time, but not when using primes on a sunny day. The least number of things in the optical path the better, in my book, particularly when you have to use heavy filtration to achieve your desired exposure - colour casts and lack of sharpness can become a real issue, and not just for pixel peepers. In general, I'm not a fan of variable ND, though I haven't used the FS5, so can't comment on its implementation there - they may have cracked it for all I know.
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But if in Cine EI using a LUT moving the ISO around all the time will effectively move your grey level up in this case.. or down with higher ISO .. no..? with an Fs7/F5/F55.. Fs5 no cine EI mode I believe..ISO 50 in Cine EI you would have no head room at all..... as i know it, and Ive only played around with it.. the variable ND is not two polars at all.. its one piece of glass .. no moving parts.. just an electric current applied to this glass.. magic !
 
Used an FS5 on a job last week for the first time in ages and remembered what a pig of a camera it is.

However, that FS5 ND is bloody great. Someone needs to offer it as an aftermarket powered 'front of lens' system for other cameras ASAP. A slot-in 4x5.65" one being powered by lemo/d-dap and with a control like the roto-pola to adjust it would absolutely smash it.
 
Donny 123 said:
But if in Cine EI using a LUT moving the ISO around all the time will effectively move your grey level up in this case.. or down with higher ISO .. no..? with an Fs7/F5/F55.. Fs5 no cine EI mode I believe..ISO 50 in Cine EI you would have no head room at all..... as i know it, and Ive only played around with it.. the variable ND is not two polars at all.. its one piece of glass .. no moving parts.. just an electric current applied to this glass.. magic !
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I'm not talking about FS7/LUTs/CineEi. I was thinking more about the Panny varicam with it's dual ISO - would be great to have a genuine low ISO with full dynamic range. That would be magic!

Haven't tried the FS5, so will reserve judgement on that variable ND thing!
 
Ben Scott said:
However, that FS5 ND is bloody great. Someone needs to offer it as an aftermarket powered 'front of lens' system for other cameras ASAP. A slot-in 4x5.65" one being powered by lemo/d-dap and with a control like the roto-pola to adjust it would absolutely smash it.
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Aren't the F55/F5 going to be replaced this year? Can you see it in a high end camera from Sony?
 
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