NanoFlash, Ninja or the AJA Ki Pro MINI?

jpmulligan said:
Dan, can you tell a little bit more about this beta feature? Are you saying then that once this change is implemented into production firmware releases, that the nano will record to Cineform intermediate format as a selection in addition to XDCAM? If so, while the XDCAM support seems to be hardware based, would the Cineform be a conversion from the XDCAM to Cineform format?
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Dear JP Mulligan,

I am sorry for the delay in responding.

Cineform has provided firmware updates for their products, in the form of Beta Releases, that support our file (MXF Format).

All of the feedback that I have received has been very positive. Our users are very happy about this.

Thus, to answer you question, the nanoFlash does not record in CineForm, but CineForm reads our files just fine. Thus, one can convert to CineForm, if desired, while copying the files from a CompactFlash card to your computer's disk subsystem.

To be clear, the process to convert to CineForm occurs external to the nanoFlash.

The products are:

Neo3D
Neo4K
NeoHD
NeoScene

jpmulligan said:
And here is a question that will really show my ignorance: when over / under cranking, does that actually change the recording format, or is overcranked / undercranked footage embedded in the native video stream, e.g. 1080p/30 or 720p/60? Does the nano have an advantage in this area compared to competitor products?
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Over and under-cranking is performed in the nanoFlash.

This allows one to over and under-crank in the camera and in the nanoFlash separately, if you wish. One could over crank at one rate and the other could perform different over or under-cranking.

In the nanoFlash, one specifies the base frame rate for the over and under-cranking. Most users choose 1080p24 or 720p24, but any of the common frame rates are possible.

The Non-Linear Editor will see this base rate as the frame rate of your clips (files).

Then, one selects the "Crank Rate" from 1 to 60 for 720p or 1 to 30 for 1080. (The camera needs to send out progressive frames for over and under-cranking to work best.)

The way that the nanoFlash performs over and under-cranking, is to record just the correct number of frames, bypass all others, according to the "Crank Rate" you specified.

My explanations may make this appear complicated to the user, but it is very easy, and very useful.

Of the portable external recorders mentioned in this thread, I beleive that the nanoFlash is the only one that offers this feature.

As always, I hope this helps.

Respectfully,


Dan M. Keaton
Director of Sales and Marketing
Convergent Design
 
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Okay, so, for clarification -- I believe that what Dan is saying is that no, the Nano will not be updated to allow in-Nano Cineform recording. Instead, the update he's referring to is that Cineform's software will now properly work with Nano MPEG files, so that you can use Cineform's software to convert the NanoFlash's MPEG-2 files into Cineform files.
 
And I appreciate Dan coming on and explaining things. Always nice to have a manufacturer's rep who's willing to answer end-user questions.
 
Here is a question that I have been wanting to ask but it kept slipping my mind. Are there any external recorders that can record over 120 fps for extremely smooth slo-motion shooting? I would think this would be a really cool feature. If there are no units currently on the market my 2nd question is is it doable at an affordable price? And being that the unit is external does the camera unit (AF-100) play a part other than being the image conduit?

Hope these question makes sense :)
 
No it's not possible at all, because there's no video output that supports 120fps, because there's no video signal standard that supports 120fps. There are computer monitor standards that support those high framerates, but not video signals.
 
Will all of these units start recording when they detech the host camera is recording thru hdmi or hdsdi cable?
 
Most people set the Nano up for a time code trigger. If the Nano detects the time code is changing it runs and matches its own time code to the incoming time code signal. That helps tremendously when lining up Nano clips with regular clips as you match the time codes. You don't need a clap board to sync them.

You'll have to look up the manuals on the other two, if they are available. One of them I don't think is out yet.
 
derbrocks09 said:
...
I think my only point here is that I think even $2k is going to be hard for many AF100 owners like myself to justify let alone $3k. The Nano will likely be a great choice for working pros but for the thousands of Indie Filmmakers out there who are on a tight budget I predict the Nano will get killed by the Ki Pro if not the Ninja. Plus the 10bit vs 8bit thing is pretty important IMO. Not for the AF100 obviously but someday we will want 10 bit and someday the Nano will have to be replaced where the Ki Pro won't.

Again, just my 2 cents.
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Don't forget about the cost of recording media. If you want to do 220, you can use MUCH cheaper cards on the nanoFlash than you can with the Ki Pro. I believe the difference in price for two 64 cards is something like $700. This brings the price difference down to $200. Add to that cheaper batteries w/ longer life and a product that has been battle tested, and I don't see much of a difference.

Yes the Ki Pro is cheaper to get into, but both will cost about the same if you want record at high bit rates, which is kind of the whole point of the product anyway.
 
Dear Friends,

To add to what Duke has said:

The nanoFlash can detect when the camera's timecode is incrementing and then start recording. And recording stops when the timecode stops.
This is one of many ways to trigger the nanoFlash.

But, while HD-SDI carries embedded timecode, HDMI never carries timecode, it is not in the HDMI spec.

An optional cable can be used to connect the nanoFlashes timecode input to a camera, if the camera has a timecode output.

If not, the nanoFlash can generate internal timecode in multiple varieties.

I hope this helps
 
Dan, can the Nano detect the HD-SDI record flag?

I know you have the timecode trigger thing, but that's not usable when doing free-run timecode (such as multi-camera shoots or time-of-day timecode). The AF100 has a flag in its timecode stream (or elsewhere?) that sends a record signal to any external recorder; I've used it with the HPG20. If the Nano could sense that record flag, it wouldn't have to rely on running timecode and it'd then become usable on multi-camera shoots or time-of-day timecode, such as what nature cinematographers might want to use.
 
Barry_Green said:
Dan, can the Nano detect the HD-SDI record flag?
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We have the necessary technical details from Panasonic, which they graciously provided, and we will be implementing this as soon as possible.

I fully expect that we will have this working, and in our firmware, before the AF100 is shipped.
 
Dan Keaton said:
We have the necessary technical details from Panasonic, which they graciously provided, and we will be implementing this as soon as possible.

I fully expect that we will have this working, and in our firmware, before the AF100 is shipped.
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Double cool.
 
Dan Keaton said:
Dear Friends,

We have a very close relationship with Canon and a few other camera manufacturers.

We have been wanting to record, via the HDMI output of the Canon cameras, for some time now.

...

On a more positive note, we fully expect this situation to change, as we expect a clear HDMI output in future cameras from multipe camera manufaturers.

Multiple manufactures are working to provide high quality outputs from their cameras.

...
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Dan, can you say if Nikon is one of those manufacturers?
 
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Dear Friends,

Sorry, but I do not have any direct knowledge of Nikon plans.

With all of the questions being posted about "Does it have Clean HDMI" for every new camera, one would think that every DSLR manufacturer at least knows about the issue.
 
Any word on a Atomos Ninja release date? Not to be mean but they are a brand new startup and this is their first product, right? I'm just wondering if they have a solid date or at least an accurate timeframe. The best I've seen is "hoping to ship in December", which is vague.

I love all the ideas of Ninja - choose your hard drive, straight to ProRes, hard drive mounts to edit... To me, this stuff is so superior to cards in terms of workflow. And as I've used a Firestore for a long time, hard drive recording is pretty darn reliable. And Ninja with SSD would be incredible.
 
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Hey Barry,

I read a post by you that spoke of on board recording of the AF100 being more than suitable. I believe you spoke of your editor stating that the differences between the internal recording and external recording being very minimal. Can you elaborate on that.
 
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