Nab 2016

tillhavis said:
Hi ! Can anybody at the show PLEASE ask a Blackmagic or Sony rep if the FS5 output can be recorded by the Blackmagic 4K Video Assist in 10bit 4:2:2 or will this have
to be paid for in the upgrade.
If the 4K Assist can record a 4K 10bit 4:2:2 signal from the FS5 then this could be and ideal combination
and may even replace the FS5's LCD display.

Also if anybody manages to talk with a rep from BM maybe they could ask if they plan to provide any LUT's with the monitor, even
the same basic REC 709 LUT offered by Sony on their LCD would help when recording Log footage.
Thanks.
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The HDMI on the FS5 outputs UHD up to 30p. In theory the BMD Video Assist 4K should be able to ttake the HDMi signal and give you UHD prores or dnxhr which is 10bit 422 by default (even though you'll get an 8bit 422 output out of the HDMI and then re-wrapped into a 10bit container for the ProRes/Avid recording on the BMD Video Assist). No raw license needed.

If you want Raw out of the FS5, it has to be via the BNC and you have to buy the license. The BMD video assist won't do RAW anyway.
 
hoju said:
No conspiratorial rats here. The 4K VA supports UHS II SD cards, that have write speeds up to 250 MB/sec...
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Most cards only quote the maximum/burst rate. Once he buffer fills up, they slow down to a crawl. New ratings UHS 30/60/90 are supposed to provide the minimum sustainable bit rate, making the consumer decision much less of a pig-in-a-poke.

CraigM said:
Osmo 4th axis arm to help prevent the up-and-down movement from walking ...
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There are a few 4-axis gimbals out there. Most of the solutions are mechanical, very similar to a spring arm on the Steadicam type vests.
 
DLD said:
There are a few 4-axis gimbals out there. Most of the solutions are mechanical, very similar to a spring arm on the Steadicam type vests.
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That Osmo arm...well, I guess I'd have to try it to know for sure, but offsetting the mass away from the handle like that seems like a surefire way to encourage operating fatigue. There should have been a fixed offset at the bottom that moved the handle back under the CG of the camera.
 
keylight said:
This is one of the weirdest things I've seen in a while. If anyone has a chance to shoot it in action at NAB, hope you'll post it!

http://www.came-tv.com/cameaccordion-p-820.html

View attachment 112717
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It's a clever concept - allowing you to pan, elevate, and zoom the arm out all at the same time. I played with it a bit. As you might expect, it is wobbly in the pan direction. I did not get it fully extended as they had it at the back of a small booth with no room to move it around. Just think of one of those bathroom mirrors that has that type of arm and then put a few pounds on it and extend it 10'. You get the idea. It's difficult to make it solid so it does not wobble. I expect you would have to use it gingerly.

 
TheDingo said:
....

Also, there's the new Came-TV Optimus gimbal : CAME-TV Optimus Gimbal
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They said they have not set the price (it will be more expensive than the CAME Single) and they had no release date. The one big improvement is the position of the joystick. On the Single, the joystick button (used by your index finger) is in a bad position and difficult to use. This is much improved on the Optimus. Not shown in the big pictures in the link is that it comes with a dual handle as well as the pistol grip. The knurled ring above the pistol grip unscrews and the pistol can be replaced with a dual handle.
 
CharlesPapert said:
That Osmo arm...well, I guess I'd have to try it to know for sure, but offsetting the mass away from the handle like that seems like a surefire way to encourage operating fatigue. There should have been a fixed offset at the bottom that moved the handle back under the CG of the camera.
Click to expand...
I kind of thought that the top end operators - where one can't help much with the total weight of the rig - would find more use for the hoverboard/Segway sort of contraptions that can offer a constant speed movement due its electric motors and the ability to support the combined weight of the high end pro gear. Of course, there are motorized dollies/buggy cams and so on too.
 
Paul F said:
It's a clever concept - allowing you to pan, elevate, and zoom the arm out all at the same time. I played with it a bit. As you might expect, it is wobbly in the pan direction. I did not get it fully extended as they had it at the back of a small booth with no room to move it around. Just think of one of those bathroom mirrors that has that type of arm and then put a few pounds on it and extend it 10'. You get the idea. It's difficult to make it solid so it does not wobble. I expect you would have to use it gingerly.
Click to expand...

Paul F said:
They said they have not set the price (it will be more expensive than the CAME Single) and they had no release date. The one big improvement is the position of the joystick. On the Single, the joystick button (used by your index finger) is in a bad position and difficult to use. This is much improved on the Optimus. Not shown in the big pictures in the link is that it comes with a dual handle as well as the pistol grip. The knurled ring above the pistol grip unscrews and the pistol can be replaced with a dual handle.
Click to expand...

The mirror analogy makes tons of sense. Thanks for the details on both of these, especially the Optimus!

I was just about to pull the trigger on the Single a week ago, but two things stopped me. The coming of NAB and seeing the Pilotfly H2. I like the smaller handle (circumference) and the fact that they have an optional dual handle. And I really wanted a thumb joystick position. Now it looks like the Optimus may have solved the handle size issue, and hearing that they've moved the joystick (under the thumb I hope?) AND that it comes with a dual handle setup..... Well, I guess I'll just have to wait a bit longer!

Although, the build quality on that H2 looks awfully nice.

EDIT: I can't understand a word of what this guy says (in the videos where he's talking of course) but his gimbal work is sooooo smooth.


 
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tillhavis said:
Thanks K0bayashi ! So the BMD 4K is not going to record 4K 10bit 4:2:2 from the cameras sensor just 8bit wrapped.
This is a disappointment as the only other recorder seems to be the Convergent Design which is a much higher price.
I don't think the Atomos can record RAW from the FS5 either (I may be wrong on this) so this really leaves only one option for
RAW recording or true 4K 10bit from the FS5.
Always another step !
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Yes and no - you can't get true 10bit out of an 8bit source from any recorder. Atomos/Odyssey/BMD will give you a 10bit 422 file, but the HDMI out on cameras today is 8bit 422. To me its not that important, as I am hard pressed to see a real life difference so far from an 8bit 422 signal into a 10bit 422 container (i.e every 4K HDMI out camera out there into an Atomos or CD or BMD recorder) , compared to a 10bti 422 original capture source. I am sure there is, but I am no so fussed about it; after all your clients will probably never be able to tell the difference .

Dont fuss about it too much.

If you want the highest quality 4K - you need to go 4K RAW out of 3G-SDI into an Odyssey7Q+. For 95% of people out there 4K ProRes 10bit 422 , even over HDMI will be more than fine for just about any job, unless it is super heavy on green screen and VFX where you probably need to go Raw or 444.
 
tillhavis said:
...I have also been looking at the Video Devices PixE5 which for me would be a better fit size wise with the FS5 plus you have LUT's and
other features and I could potentially do away with the FS5 LCD and just use the PIX.
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The PIX-E5 looks like it was made to sit ontop of the FS5 - its 5 inch portable , rugged and does great audio too with the PIX-LR attachment. If I had an FS5 I would probably be buying a PIX-E5
 
k0bayashi said:
The PIX-E5 looks like it was made to sit ontop of the FS5 - its 5 inch portable , rugged and does great audio too with the PIX-LR attachment. If I had an FS5 I would probably be buying a PIX-E5
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Does that have the ability to record 4K, 60p RAW out though?
 
spinkscapes said:
Does that have the ability to record 4K, 60p RAW out though?
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No it doesn't. No raw to CDNG and no Raw to Raw. Just ProRes, up to 444XQ. For me its the portability, user interface, build quality is excellent, the touch screen and tactile buttons are a nice touch, the exposure and focus tools and the whole feel of the thing. It's beautiful. I am not too fussed about it now being able to do raw.
 
keylight said:
... Now it looks like the Optimus may have solved the handle size issue, and hearing that they've moved the joystick (under the thumb I hope?)....
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It is still an index finger joystick control. They just re-positioned it so that it is easier to use with the index finger. These little joysticks are useless for re positioning during a shot. They are only good for setting up a shot. I find my index finger less important in holding the unit than my thumb. So I prefer that it be located for index finger control.



It also comes with a nice stand for the pistol grip.
 
Paul F said:
It is still an index finger joystick control. They just re-positioned it so that it is easier to use with the index finger. These little joysticks are useless for re positioning during a shot. They are only good for setting up a shot. I find my index finger less important in holding the unit than my thumb. So I prefer that it be located for index finger control.

It also comes with a nice stand for the pistol grip.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the clarification. I don't suppose you know where the joystick is located on the 2 handle setup? News Shooter posted a video of it from the show, but I can't see the joystick anywhere (on the 2 handles). Maybe via the remote? Looks like a great jib head too. If the price and delivery match my needs, I think I've found the gimbal I'll get.

 
k0bayashi said:
No it doesn't. No raw to CDNG and no Raw to Raw. Just ProRes, up to 444XQ. For me its the portability, user interface, build quality is excellent, the touch screen and tactile buttons are a nice touch, the exposure and focus tools and the whole feel of the thing. It's beautiful. I am not too fussed about it now being able to do raw.
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Equally significant IMO is that with a relatively inexpensive add-on, you get Sound Devices preamps with XLR inputs and phantom power, plus proper faders... And with no cables.
 
tillhavis said:
Thanks K0bayashi ! It's interesting to hear your experience using the 8bit 422 signal in a 10bit Container and the real world difference between it and the 10bit 422 original.
This gives me something new to think about. Once I can limit the banding issues of 8bit 4:2:0 and get a better quality 4:2:2 recording from the FS5 I would be happy.
Click to expand...
Bitrate is key.




sample extracted from (minute 28:30):
https://vimeo.com/114978513
 
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