NAB 2014: Adobe Reveals Next Wave of Premiere Pro CC, After Effects, Speedgrade (vid)

hscully said:
For me, it's the time and training on the software that will be the greatest loss to me. It's taken a long time and a lot of hours invested in learning the software. If I don't take the subscription, much of that time is lost and I will have to learn another set of tools so that's more of an investment. That and the plugins.
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Given what's happened over the past few years (FCP 7 to X, Adobe going CC, Avid having some serous bookkeeping problems, etc.,) I've pretty much given up on any long term stability in the software I use. I'll plan for 3 maybe 4 years ahead but further out than that I just assume I'll be using different software by then. I first learned Avid, spent a little time with Premiere (not Pro), then picked up FCP and stayed with that for 5 or 6 years until X came out. Then I dusted off my Avid chops and started learning PPro. If FCP X starts getting penetration in my neck of the woods I'll learn that and I'm also keeping my eye on Resolve, with it's growing NLE functionality, and Lightworks (which finally has a release date for the Mac beta).


-Andrew
 
Quite contrary to the evolution of video cameras and feature we seem to like, it's quit the opposite when it comes to NLE software it seems.

If only they'd leave that alone.
 
I love Adobe CC. I make feature films and besides composers, it's a one man show when it comes to post. Having the programs all play together is HUGE for someone like me. In the eight or so months I've been a subscriber, I've had what would be two years worth of updates. That's pretty cool given the low cost. My earnings from youtube more than pay for it, so it works out well. I had issues with the subscription model at first, but now I really like it since I'm seeing the benefits (my wallet is too).
 
That's great all you CC happy campers but what would the full production suite of software that was typically included with CS5, CS5.5, or CS6 cost you on a monthly basis?

Here maybe you need a brief reminder of what came with the various suites:

Adobe Production Premium Suite CS5.5 - was approx $1995 retail
Photoshop CS5 Extended
Illustrator CS5
OnLocation CS5
Encore CS5
Bridge CS5
Flash Professional CS5.5
Flash Catalyst CS5.5
Premiere Pro CS5.5
After Effects CS5.5
Audition CS5.5
Device Central CS5.5
Media Encoder CS5.5
Dynamic Link CS5
Soundbooth CS5
Moca motion tracking CS5

Adobe Production Premium Suite CS6 - was approx $1995 retail
Premiere Pro CS6
After Effects CS6
Photoshop Extended CS6
Illustrator CS6
Audition CS6
SpeedGrade CS6
Flash Professional CS6
Encore CS6
Media Encoder CS6
Prelude CS6
Story CS6


Then add on top of that any other software from Adobe you might need like Adobe Dreamweaver for website design, maintenance, or programming if say your company also offers those types of services...

Let's argue that even if someone doesn't "need" all this software how much do you start forking out a month for what you do need before realizing that on paper it's simply a bad business decision? For example my business invests in ASSETS or PEOPLE and I will gladly overpay for hardware, cameras, and furniture I will OWN which at the end of it's life will still maintain some level of residual value (as does my CS6 production premium suite) - but paying RENT becomes a mere EXPENSE and I see absolutely no value in it from a financial point of view.
 
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starcentral said:
I agree too, and now that Davinci Resolve 11 plans to be a full blown NLE, now for sure Adobe will never get my money... ever. I had no issues paying $2000 for a full production suite, but forcing into ongoing payment is not going to happen.
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Yeah, I had been looking at Lightworks and signed up for their Mac beta program, and then
I see the Resolve 11 news. I really like the looks of Resolve 11 from the videos on it that
I've been able to see. Looks a little like a cross between FCP7 (CS6) and FCP X as far
as the NLE features. And from what I hear from my sources, they are pretty serious
about making it a full featured NLE as well the color grading it is known for.
I will be trying out the free version the day it is released and may upgrade to the pro
version.
 
starcentral said:
That's great all you CC happy campers but what would the full production suite of software that was typically included with CS5, CS5.5, or CS6 cost you on a monthly basis?
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I currently pay around £450 a year for CC, regularly use Premiere, AE, Lightroom, Dreamweaver, Acrobat Pro and Photoshop. I'd need the Master Collection to cover all of those options, no idea what the price used to be, although I could buy it today for £1,200.

So CC would cost about the same after 3 years (I don't consider software to have any residual value after that length of time). I'd be inclined to upgrade at about the same time if I purchased the software out right, so the outlay is pretty much the same... although with CC the payment is spread over the three years, with a license it's all paid up front.. I'd rather have the cash in my business than theirs....

Also, with CC I also get regular updates and new versions as soon as they're released, instead of having to find the right time in my business to justify the capital expenditure, or worry about what else may be just around the corner. So for us, it worked for our business.

Why did Adobe do it? I'd guess for three main reasons:

- Anti piracy: subscription based is undeniably harder to knock off.
- Improved support/reduced support overhead: the majority of people will be working off the latest version, queries and issues will be based around that
- What's best for the shareholders. They are the people that Adobe have a responsibility towards, not the customers.

For sure, the CC license isn't going to suit everyone... but then nobody's forcing you, there are other choices in the market.
 
Regarding any price related discussions of Adobe, if you didn't have a need to buy immediately(and with Adobe, have you ever really needed to?) you could wait for some very good sales to happen. When I was looking to upgrade from Production Premium CS3 to CS5.5, I ended up buying a whole new license instead of the upgrade because it was only $750 at B&H. No, that was not an edu license, that was a full commercial PP CS5.5.
 
Stuart Keasley said:
I currently pay around £450 a year for CC, regularly use Premiere, AE, Lightroom, Dreamweaver, Acrobat Pro and Photoshop. I'd need the Master Collection to cover all of those options, no idea what the price used to be, although I could buy it today for £1,200.
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I'm not picking on you or anyone specifically but let's just look at your data for comparison purposes:

A CC subscriber pays around 1/3 per year of what it actually would have cost to have bought the equivalent Adobe Suite if Adobe was still selling it and keep in mind with the suites as I've illustrated you always got additional software like Mocha, Audition, etc.. etc.. Maybe something you didn't really need, but always came in handy at one point or another. ie. like the built in waveform monitor and exposure tools of OnLocation. Saved my bacon on one specific shoot I remember!

Let's look at the numbers when buying an Adobe suite outright:

One year after paying full price for a retail release the suite is worth around 75% should you decide to sell it let's say. In the 2nd year, 50% - 75%. At the end of the 3rd year and sometimes even 4-5 years later it's STILL worth 35% to 50% (or more) depending on who's selling it and where (just go look on ebay) and how badly someone needs it. I still buy older suites for my MACs and PCs and Adobe's licensing policies allow it to be installed on up to two computer which is fantastic!

So with a purchasable Suite in 3-4 years you've only effectively paid 50% to 65% the original value of the software. You can sell it if you want or keep it and deploy it to a spare machine as a backup system or machine for overflow work, etc.. But with CC you've paid 100% in three years and there is absolutely no residual value. In three years you are back to square one and have to do it all over again. Adobe still get's your money up-front for three years for the most part too because I think they offer a small discount if you pre-pay.


CF01 said:
Regarding any price related discussions of Adobe, if you didn't have a need to buy immediately(and with Adobe, have you ever really needed to?) you could wait for some very good sales to happen. When I was looking to upgrade from Production Premium CS3 to CS5.5, I ended up buying a whole new license instead of the upgrade because it was only $750 at B&H. No, that was not an edu license, that was a full commercial PP CS5.5.
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And to that point I too have never paid full retail of $1995 USD for Production Premium Suites and I'm not talking about buying the OEM, student, academic, etc... versions either. I'm talking 100% the full retail software, packaging, licence.
 
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I don't post here like I used to, but completely agree with PKW11. I can't say it enough, this is a primary problem with large, publicly traded enterprises in this country. But it's also why I support Tim Cook for recently shouting down a shareholder who didn't like Apple's sustainability goals. It's not all about making the shareholders quick money. I don't want this to get political, and it's not, so I'll end by saying by and large Adobe is a good company. They make good products, and by all indications it's also a good company who does well by their employees. For now at least.

Having said that, I am still on CS5 and FCP7 (both legit, I'd like to add), and I'm happy with that. One thing I do like about the CC though is being able to fairly easily subscribe to only the software you need. For example, I'm very close to pulling the trigger on Muse. Though I have no interest at all in upgrading my version of Illustrator, Flash (eew), or several other apps. But this too will eventually end. And I agree with whomever wrote about stickiness. Eventually users are going to run into roadblocks and locked features and elements. Little by little.
 
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" . . . in this case the beauty would be value.
I don't have a dog in this race so I'm not going to try to convince anyone to do as I have done, because everyone's circumstances (and point of view) are different . . . we're different.
I remember how (nearly) everyone howled when Adobe first announced the subscription, and notably I recognize a few of those voices here today.
I have a lot of boxes of Adobe (full suite) software on the shelf next to me despite which I have no complaints about having gone the subscription route on day 1.

It might have been (for me) a tougher decision if I only needed Premiere or maybe Premiere and AE.
Some might argue but having owned the Avid, Grass Valley, and FCP X products I can state with some confidence that to pretend any of those are comparable to CC is laughable.
I won't waste your time, or mine, trying to convince anyone how complete, organized, and well integrated CC (despite its stupid name) is because if you don't already know that you must be living a sheltered existence.

If all I ever did was post clips of my cat (confession: I don't have a cat) to YouTube I'd probably still be having some internal argument but $50 a month (with same day delivery of improvements)?
It's fair to say that the value ("beauty is . . .") I receive well exceeds that.
I pay more for my internet connection.

Peace.
 
Looking forward to these new updates. AE text editable templates in Premiere Pro is going to be a godsend for me.

As a 1 man creative department for my company CC has been suiting my needs since launch, though I wish they would offer their prices in Canadian dollars, the loonie has been slipping the past few months vs the dollar and now I am paying more for my personal subscription and my company is paying more for my work subscription as we are billed in USD.

It would also be nice to see a production bundle that was a bit less, like $40-45/mo, I still need the full suite at work but for my personal subscription I would be fine with just the apps they used to offer in the production suite.
 
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pkw11 said:
This is flawed reasoning and the FATAL flaw of American business practice. For without CUSTOMERS, the stock value won't be worth the paper it's printed on.
.
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Flawed? But you've pretty much said exactly the same thing, just from a different angle!

The primary responsibility of a business is to meet the needs of it's shareholders, ie increased stock prices and/or dividends. For a business such as Adobe, that means maximising profit through sales to customers. So yes, and obviously, customers are hugely important.

But don't ever kid yourself where you sit in the pecking order, you are important purely because you are needed to in order to satisfy the needs of the shareholders. And if suddenly you find that you're not that important anymore, it's because the business has decided on a different strategy to keep their share holders happy.
 
starcentral said:
I'm not picking on you or anyone specifically but let's just look at your data for comparison purposes:

A CC subscriber pays around 1/3 per year of what it actually would have cost to have bought the equivalent Adobe Suite if Adobe was still selling it and keep in mind with the suites as I've illustrated you always got additional software like Mocha, Audition, etc.. etc.. Maybe something you didn't really need, but always came in handy at one point or another. ie. like the built in waveform monitor and exposure tools of OnLocation. Saved my bacon on one specific shoot I remember!

Let's look at the numbers when buying an Adobe suite outright:

One year after paying full price for a retail release the suite is worth around 75% should you decide to sell it let's say. In the 2nd year, 50% - 75%. At the end of the 3rd year and sometimes even 4-5 years later it's STILL worth 35% to 50% (or more) depending on who's selling it and where (just go look on ebay) and how badly someone needs it. I still buy older suites for my MACs and PCs and Adobe's licensing policies allow it to be installed on up to two computer which is fantastic!

So with a purchasable Suite in 3-4 years you've only effectively paid 50% to 65% the original value of the software. You can sell it if you want or keep it and deploy it to a spare machine as a backup system or machine for overflow work, etc.. But with CC you've paid 100% in three years and there is absolutely no residual value. In three years you are back to square one and have to do it all over again. Adobe still get's your money up-front for three years for the most part too because I think they offer a small discount if you pre-pay.
.
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You've only effectively paid 50% to 65%if you decide to and manage to sell the license at that stage. Up until that point, the cash has been spent.

How would your figures compare if you chose you care to upgrade with every new major release, take advantage of the increased functionality they bring? Adobe's policy was every two years if I remember correctly?

For sure, CC doesn't work for everyone, but it does work for some.
 
I understand your point but if you don't sell the software it still has some level of equity. So it doesn't matter if the cash is spent, keeping equity simply means at any point now or in the distant future it has some "worth" which can be sold for cash, traded, etc..

If you decided to keep your software up to date every 2 years, you could buy the $299 upgrades on the Production suites which works out to $150 a year and isn't too bad. Or, you could sell your $1995 suite for $800 to $1200 and buy an entirely new version which obviously means for a Production Premium suite you'd be spending $800 to $1200 ever two years, or on average $16 to $25 per month over a two year period. Each time you outlay the $2000 for the suite, but that equity value in the software means you can at any time get a good chunk of it back if you want. (same as if you have a feature film to shoot - do you rent a camera for 20 days which might cost more than it would to buy the camera and then sell it when done?)

If you go for 3-4 years, your average price paid goes down to almost single digit dollars per month. This is exactly how Adobe looks at it and why they have moved to subscription based software.

I don't know ANYONE who has every griped about poor support software from Adobe prior to the CC model - and now I know tons of people who are complaining about bugs and issues with CC where Adobe is too busy addressing more critical priority issues?! So not sure who has really benefited.

I do agree, everyone is different and will have their own reasons for what they like and what suits them. The idea behind CC that Adobe has been promoting is "peace of mind" , "up to date software" - but even with old software updates were regular and available especially when critical and pressing.

Anyway, I love bitching about Adobe CC and sorry to say that at least from my end it will never stop. There's something very rewarding when I can seriously say "buh bye Adobe" and VOW that I will never ever put a dollar into their company products again.

I am using Premiere CS6 and FCP X these days and will give Davinci Resolve 11 a go for editing when its available. I have already moved over to Resolve from After Effects for grading which is quite inefficient for selecting grading once you learn how fast and powerful it is to do it in Davinci.

Anyway hope I haven't offended anyone... just LOVE reaming out Adobe! Once again I will say, "FU adobe you will never get my money again! EVER!"
 
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starcentral said:
I understand your point but if you don't sell the software it still has some level of equity. So it doesn't matter if the cash is spent, keeping equity simply means at any point now or in the distant future it has some "worth" which can be sold for cash, traded, etc..

If you decided to keep your software up to date every 2 years, you could buy the $299 upgrades on the Production suites which obviously works out to $150 a year and isn't too bad. Or, you could sell your $1995 suite for $800 - $1200 and buy an entirely new version which obviously means for a Production Premium suite you'd be spending $800 to $1200 ever two years, or on average $16 to $25 per month over a two year period. Each time you outlay the $2000 for the suite, but that equity value in the software means you can at any time get a good chunk of it back if you want. (same as if you have a feature film to shoot - do you rent a camera for 20 days which might cost more than it would to buy the camera and then sell it when done?)

If you go for 3-4 years, your average price paid goes down to almost single digit dollars per month. This is exactly how Adobe looks at it and why they have moved to subscription based software.

I don't know ANYONE who has every griped about poor support software from Adobe prior to the CC model - and now I know tons of people who are complaining about bugs and issues with CC where Adobe is too busy addressing more critical priority issues?! So not sure who has really benefited.

I do agree, everyone is different and will have their own reasons for what they like and what suits them. The idea behind CC that Adobe has been promoting is "peace of mind" , "up to date software" - but even with old software updates were regular and available especially when critical and pressing.

Anyway, I love bitching about Adobe CC and sorry to say that at least from my end it will never stop. There's something very rewarding when I can seriously say "buh bye Adobe" and VOW that I will never ever put a dollar into their company products again.

I am using Premiere CS6 and FCP X these days and will give Davinci Resolve 11 a go for editing when its available. I have already move over to Resolve from After Effects for grading which is quite inefficient for selecting grading once you learn how fast and powerful it is to do it in Davinci.

Anyway hope I haven't offended anyone... just LOVE reaming out Adobe! Once again I will say, "FU adobe you will never get my money again! EVER!"
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dennis-

come on, share with us how you really feel!

:-)

be well.

rob
smalltalk productions/nyc
 
pkw11 said:
This is flawed reasoning and the FATAL flaw of American business practice. For without CUSTOMERS, the stock value won't be worth the paper it's printed on.

There are a lot of useful idiots in today's market. The reasoning that the customer are responsible for keeping ANY company afloat is just idiotic. It's not the customer's responsibility to assure that any firm stays in business.

Face it, for a large proportion of the world out there, the current Adobe product line has enough capability to fulfill current and future needs. The ENTIRE industry is trying to push new products that aren't in demand by the public (e.g. 4K everything) just so everyone will go out and buy all this stuff and, thus, save the video and electronics industry which is in serious trouble.

Look at the situation with Microsoft. XP is still be used by millions of users--I'm typing this on an XP machine right now. I'm using Microsoft Office 2007. Why? I don't NEED any of the "new" versions. I'm using a Core-2 Duo machine that's also 6 years old. XP came out 12 years ago.

The customer comes first. Of course people can spend their money in irrational and self-defeating ways. Just look at the savings rate of Americans. They have new 60 inch TV's but they haven't saved a dime for retirement. But, wait you say, the stock market is at record highs!

Yeah right....
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Yup. You remind me of a recent go round I had with a CC supporter who told me that
#1
'Most people spend more on their coffee than on CC in a month' and

#2(my favorite)
'if you can't afford $50 a month you should rethink if you are ready to be in business.'

My response to #1 goes to your point. I personally don't spend any money on coffee and
I can't control how other people fritter their money away. As my parents used to tell
me, just because everyone else is jumping off a cliff....... I don't spend my hard earned
money irrationally....which seems to be almost unamerican these days.

As to #2, I simply noted that I could 'afford' to pay a witch doctor $50 a month to
shake his rattlesnake bone rattle over my head too.

And like Dennis, Adobe will never have a freakin dime of my money again in my life.
Period, end of story. Mandatory CC made me mad enough, that I found an alternative
for my wife when she wanted Photoshop Elements. I'm not going to support them in
any way.
 
I only need a couple of lines for this.....the very best run companies all know this
one little secret ...keep your customers happy and the world will bet a path to your door..
the companies who are subservient to their stock holders are only as good as their next marketing campaign !

cheers,

Tye
 
I like the subscription model, then again I am a pro not a hobbyist so it really costs me less than one billable hour a month to lease it. I used to buy final cut studio packages for around 2k - I think I paid close to 3 once for an early studio package but missed a cycle and ended up stuck with old software ( fcp 6) on old hardware. Now I just update cc as the updates come in. I see it more as partnering with adobe so I have the latest package at all times. for enthusiasts or hobbyists I can see an issue - perhaps they should offer a subscription or purchase option? otherwise there is final cut x, anyway just my two cents. I switched from fcp to cc and couldn't be happier with the suite.
 
I see this business model keeping students and new people using this program ie can't afford or won't pay the monthly outlay. They will buy a program -- use it -- and stick with it for a long time. You have to crawl before you walk and you can only run after you learn to walk. The pros making the good money can run with the CC subscription but everyone that is at the crawl or walk point will not use CC -- they will seek out other programs. Eventually Adobe will have dwindling user base as old users retire or move on to other programs and there will be no new blood.
As growth trails off for Adobe they will eventually raise the monthly subscription to maintain growth and you will either pay the piper or acquire a competing product. I will keep using PP CS5.5 until I need something to edit 4K and will worry about that when that day comes.

My historical purchases: Premiere 5 or 5.1 (mid 1990s), PPro 1.5, CS3, CS5(Premiere Pro only), CS5.5 bundle thanks to a friend's copy he gave me. Since my computer lacks internet access I can not and will not get CC. I have zero plans to allow my NLE computer connect to the inernet. It lacks virus program which would slow my computer down.
Side note: I find myself using Edius for a lot of my basic work. It is a fast workflow (for what I do) with a super quick transcoding for DVDs or computer files.
I have also steered people, new to NLE, to Edius where historivally I would of told them to pick up Adobe PP.
in short: there is a trade off either way.
my 2 cents
 
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