NAB 2011 and the AF100

WHatever.

Then again, he is comparing it to the RED Epic, which is only shipping to friends of RED in hand-built quantities, and the ALEXA, which is $65k.
 
Every thing he liked was at least $13500 and up - just about three times the price of the AF 100

It like going to a porsche event and complaining about a VW New Beetle
 
Laforet is entitled to his opinion, but his opinion was not shared by anyone else who attended the SCCE screening who I spoke to. And to say that the Red Epic was the winner, when it wasn't even in the test, seems curious (the SCCE tested a Red One with MX sensor, not an Epic). To single the AF100 out as "the biggest loser" and then to proclaim that the Canons "held their own" -- was simply not what those I spoke to in the theater experienced. We saw the F3 and AF100 as closer than we expected, and there was actually laughter when the DSLR shots came up.

My own take on the SCCE tests and results is in another thread, but in general of everyone I spoke to at the show it was pretty obvious that the AF100 and F3 came out leagues ahead of the DSLRs, a notion which was reinforced when the AF100 was added to the BBC's official list of HD cameras (in the "HD Specialist" category, which is the same category the F3, F35, and Red One were included in). And the Alexa was clearly top of the class of the entire group.

I don't know what the feeling may have been among those who watched on the small screen in the Zacuto tent, but I'm talking about the huge-screen presentation in the theater, in front of 400+ people, followed up by the question and answer session with many of those who participated in the test. It was intriguing to me that when the DSLRs came up on the "sharpness" test and looked so blurry, the first question that the audience asked was "that can't be right -- did you perhaps mess up the focus on the DSLRs?" and Bob Primes was very diplomatic; his response was "well... you know, I guess it's possible that there could have been some human error, but we really did try very hard to get it right." And I asked others who were on the test, I must have spoken to at least half a dozen who worked on the test, and all assured me that they were absolutely meticulous in all the tests. One of the people who was there, who was one of the chief participants, went a bit further. I asked "did you perhaps nail focus on all 8 digital cinema and film cameras, but then when it came time to test the DSLRs, even though you were using the exact same lens and the same monitors and everything, you somehow managed to mess up focus on all four DSLRs?" I will not repeat his response, but I can assure you that, no, they are quite certain that it wasn't operator error that somehow managed to make all four DSLRs look so poor in comparison to all eight of the other cameras...

But, hey -- arguing about individual opinions is kind of pointless. The Blu-Ray will be out soon and then everyone can see for themselves exactly what we saw, and make up their own minds and form their own opinions.
 
Barry_Green said:
To single the AF100 out as "the biggest loser" and then to proclaim that the Canons "held their own" --
Click to expand...

That blows my mind. I agree, we all have our own opinions..we might like one product over another...but c'mon we have a responsibility to be objective and fair...comparing apples to oranges has been overplayed and only brings a war of words over and over .

Laforet says about the Canon HDSLRs "The image quality, sharpness, moire issues, and compression definitely weren’t up to snuff with the cameras above.." If we are going to be fair...let's be fair then. Using the same measuring stick he used to proclaim the AF100 as "the biggest loser" I would conclude that all Canon HDSLRs should also be proclaimed as losers...but then again that would be like "biting the hand..."

Please understand...I am not accusing anyone of anything. I do admire his work...I think he is good and he was a reason why I got into HDSLRs in the first place...what I want is fairness across the board. Ok, you say the AF-100 blows, well then show me comparisons, charts...but most importantly...level the field ...give each camera a calculated handicap...then when all is fair and square, rip into it all you want.
 
I would concur with Barry's report on the SCCE screening. I saw it on the little screen in the Zacuto booth and it was without question one of the most professionally done comparisons. and there is no way that the DSLRs held their own. The Alexa was the clear winner in many ways and the only thing that I could think of is if on a couple of the tests where they were going through a range of stuff to give a sample of where you may have shot with the cameras that didn't handle the situation as well. Thinking about the Windo blowout scene. Only on camera held detail, the alexa, and the rest, well it would have been nice to see where you would have had to stop down to to get the shot. But that might be another test. Anyhow, the good folks at Zacuto said there would be posts to the http://www.thescce.org website with still images and some dialog soon.

Best,

Jan
 
I just don't understand how the Red Epic can be a winner to a comparison it was never included in? This isn't about bias or opinion, it's about fact. The whole point of the test to me was to put cameras to the test in exact situations and see how they handled them. I'm sure the Red Epic would have done well, but the simple fact was, it wasn't in the test. Neither was the FS100 which wasn't mentioned (and probably wasn't available when the test started).

Personally, I'd say that calling a camera an overall loser in this context is just inflammatory. I guess I need to call back my clients who absolutely loved the footage I delivered and tell them they are wrong! :) I kid of course.
 
I would prefer many of the other cameras if I could afford but I can't. Vincent has his standards a bit higher than me and if I had the cash I would also opt for something higher end.

There is one key difference between the AF and the other cameras. They are digital cinema cameras and the AF is a large sensor video camera.
 
Last edited:
It's no secret that Vincent is very loyal to Canon. It simply wasn't cool though for him to talk trash like that.
 
I don't get the F3's S-Log test.

There's a clear dynamic range advantage, & I'm now considering this setup for a show that would have been shot on Alexa(s), but why compare ungraded XDCAM footage against graded S-Log? Both formats should have been graded.

-Bern
 
Last edited:
editman said:
There is one key difference between the AF and the other cameras. They are digital cinema cameras and the AF is a large sensor video camera.
Click to expand...
Well, if things are to be categorized like that, I think there's a lot more than just two categories (digicine and large-sensor video). For example, the F3 would have to be considered a "large sensor video camera" too. And then the SLRs, they're still cameras, not video cameras and not digicine cameras. And then the Weisscam and the Phantom aren't really strictly cinema cameras moreso than they are specialty high-speed cameras (meaning -- I don't really know anyone who hires the Phantom to shoot 24fps stuff... they can, of course, and it can do very well, but most people opt for a different tool for that job, and normally bring out the Weisscam or Phantom for ultrahighspeed stuff). So if you wanted to break them down into categories, there's probably really four categories that you'd have to specify.
 
Bern Caughey said:
I don't get the F3's S-Log test.

There's a clear dynamic range advantage, & I'm now considering this setup for a show that would have been shot on Alexa(s), but why compare ungraded XDCAM footage against graded S-Log? Both formats should have been graded.

-Bern
Click to expand...
On the SCCE test? SLOG from the F3 wasn't tested, it didn't exist yet. And as far as grading goes, Mike Curtis spoke to that and said none of the footage was graded -- there was only the very mildest color correction done to put black and white where they belonged, but other than that, pretty much nothing was done to any of the footage.

Or are you referring to some other test?
 
Rick Burnett said:
I just don't understand how the Red Epic can be a winner to a comparison it was never included in?
Click to expand...

I called him out on this on twitter and he said he updated the blog with this comment:

"NB: The Red One w/ MX sensor was used for the Zacuto test – NOT the Epic. That being said I have seen quite a bit of footage from the Epic and am basing my opinion on what I’ve seen in person, and in the Red projection booth at NAB."
 
Barry_Green said:
Or are you referring to some other test?
Click to expand...

Vincent shows two videos of this S-Log test on that same blog page. Perhaps they were recently added.

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2011/04/19/nab-redux-pt-1-cameras/

Here's a link to the test on Next Level Pictures' blog.

www.nextlevelpictures.com/blog/2011...lds-first-footage-with-the-sony-f3-s-log.html

Best,
Bern

EDIT: Just noticed Timur was there too. And has the best blog entry.

http://timurcivan.blogspot.com/2011/04/sony-f3-first-s-log-test.html

Kudos to all involved.
 
Last edited:
I'm Nuke comping in a post house in London at the moment, and we have a TV series shot on the Alexa, and let me tell you there is some footage there that trumps the 5d in terms of being an aliasing/moire nightmare.

vertical lines in the distance that dance a jig across the screen as they loop and whorl...
 
Last edited:
Wasnt laforet a stills guy befoer 5d mk ii? So basically people arr worshipping a guy who has been in the industry for just 2 years?
Anyway back to topic
Im very happy the af100 is quite wide spread on nab
 
and to add, we're also doing some 2k effects work on an upcoming Cinema summer release (2k is still the norm from film in post), and we are being pixel-f*cked so much by the supervisors, it's depressing. So much so, we are so far over the budget we are basically paying them for the honor of working on this film.
There is no way in hell I would want to be doing this work at 4k, 5k or whatever hi-K you want to throw at me. The work involved would be exponentially more, and it makes me wonder where all this resolution talk is going - is it a fad? On several levels it's just not practical.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top