NAB 2011 and the AF100
- Thread starter Shooter
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Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Well, you can check out the videos that Caffesse and I posted here…
http://vimeo.com/landmine/videos
But the highlights for me were getting to actually use one of the Atomos Ninja devices (worked perfectly), checking out the new Sound Devices video recorders and Mix-PreD, the Edelkrone support rig, the new SmallHD 4" monitor and the TV Logic line of monitors.
Getting some up-close time with RED Epic and Scarlet were also pretty cool. (Me wants.)
Oh, and dinner at Jaleo (The Cosmopolitan) and seeing Le Reve were also highlights, but for different reasons.
http://vimeo.com/landmine/videos
But the highlights for me were getting to actually use one of the Atomos Ninja devices (worked perfectly), checking out the new Sound Devices video recorders and Mix-PreD, the Edelkrone support rig, the new SmallHD 4" monitor and the TV Logic line of monitors.
Getting some up-close time with RED Epic and Scarlet were also pretty cool. (Me wants.)
Oh, and dinner at Jaleo (The Cosmopolitan) and seeing Le Reve were also highlights, but for different reasons.
Mark Smith
Veteran
I was hoping for the announcement of a 5 or 6 x zoom lens F 2.8 or faster that would be usable with the AF , but no....
Lots of expensive prime Glass on the market, and then there is the Leica prime set which sets the bar for expensive.
I liked what I saw of the Birger mount and when that becomes available Canon Glass will be oh so useful as cine type glass, except the zooms won't really be cine zooms. At least you'll be able to pull focus & iris reliably with lenses that aren't really made to do that.
Off board recorders are a plenty but with the AF don't really seem to off that much advantage, maybe I am wrong. Would anyone be up for doing a test to prove how much advantage an off board recorder offers? With an F3 external recording definitely offers an advantage , but after viewing the SCCE presentation on a big screen, I came away with the idea that the F3 is incrementally better than the AF in terms of resolution and DR but certainly not night& day difference.
Lots of expensive prime Glass on the market, and then there is the Leica prime set which sets the bar for expensive.
I liked what I saw of the Birger mount and when that becomes available Canon Glass will be oh so useful as cine type glass, except the zooms won't really be cine zooms. At least you'll be able to pull focus & iris reliably with lenses that aren't really made to do that.
Off board recorders are a plenty but with the AF don't really seem to off that much advantage, maybe I am wrong. Would anyone be up for doing a test to prove how much advantage an off board recorder offers? With an F3 external recording definitely offers an advantage , but after viewing the SCCE presentation on a big screen, I came away with the idea that the F3 is incrementally better than the AF in terms of resolution and DR but certainly not night& day difference.
Stephen Mick
Totally Usable
Honestly, the benefit of an outboard recording device would be a slight boost in color space with the AF (4:2:2 vs. 4:2:0), but a much bigger benefit to many (myself included) would be the ability to shoot directly to a codec like ProRes or DNxHD. Not having to transcode/import can be a big, big time savings depending on the nature of the shoot.
Barry_Green
Moderator
One thing that I noticed, and that Timur and Mikko both pointed out, is that AF100s were *everywhere* for coverage. Seems like they outnumbered all the other cameras people were using by a 2:1 margin (their words, not mine). Not really the rig I'd reach for first when doing event coverage, but it seems like a lot of people were. The last couple of years it was DSLR rigs everywhere, this year many of them had been replaced with AF100 rigs -- and I saw several that were using a Compact Prime as their lens! Why, I don't really know, but it's what they were doing. There were still some DSLRs and Flips and conventional handycams too...
Lenses -- nothing to report, other than that I got tired of waiting for an announcement and I went to the three major companies and basically badgered them to produce what I (and I think most everyone else) want: a 12-60 to 17-80 f/2 cine-style zoom that covers the AF100 sensor but doesn't need to be any bigger than that, for $5k. Had some interesting meetings, some folks did seem interested in what I was proposing. We'll see if they make it.
I also told them all of another potentially huge market -- 1.33x anamorphics. Nobody's making 1.33's at all, Hawk has a set but they're extremely expensive and rare... one guy came up to me and said that the old LA7200 Panasonic anamorphic plastic cheapo thing was selling for $1500 on ebay!! 1.33x is the right anamorphic ratio for HD video cameras, everyone with an Alexa or Red or F3 or AF100 or DSLR would be able to use 1.33x anamorphics to get a 2.39:1 image... hopefully some lens manufacturer will pick up on that.
Okay, other things -- PL adapters were coming out of the woodwork. I counted at least a dozen manufacturers. At least. And two featured something I hadn't seen before but really liked. More on those in a future post.
The Birger adapter was there, and was really quite impressive... still in beta form, wasn't nearly finished, but they said it definitely will be shipping this May ("late May" was what they said).
New SDHC cards, Panasonic's introducing a "pro" line of SDHC cards -- waterproof, dustproof, shockproof, humidityproof, and with a testing program and computer software and hardware to verify them before use.
Saw a Manfrotto and a prototype VariZoom remote controller made specifically for the AF100, they looked pretty good and the VariZoom felt really good; didn't try the Manfrotto out. The VariZoom had all three functions - Iris, Focus, and Record start-stop; my FoXi has iris/focus only.
Recorders are everywhere; the one that looked most interesting to me was the Sound Devices PIX 240. ProRes & DNxHD, with high-quality XLR and AES inputs, a monitor, etc... looked really, really good.
Lots of baseplates designed specifically for the AF100 (including new ones from Solid, Atomic, and Vocas) and full rigs.
Zacuto had their EVF there... looked great.
Redrock were showing a prototype of their LiveLens Canon lens iris controller; it's a Canon mount for the AF100 that has an electronic control for the iris and a little LCD display.
What I most wanted to see was more lenses, but NAB wasn't the show for that, other than for Schneider and Zeiss to show off M43 mounts for their existing lenses. Voigtlander/Cosina, Olympus, and Panasonic Lumix don't exhibit at NAB, they'd likely show any new developments at PhotoKina or PMA or some other photo-oriented show.
I did hassle Zeiss about the ZA series of zooms, because I think a native version of those would be very popular -- Zeiss glass, a 16-35 and 24-70 zoom, constant f/2.8... what's not to love? You can use them now with a Novoflex adapter, but a native version with OIS and controllable iris would be pretty much ideal. The folks I talked to seemed to be a bit surprised at the request -- they were more from the Compact Primes division, thinking cine glass, and asked me "Have you seen the LWZ?" Yes, of course I have, and it's $45,000 -- that's not aimed at the AF100 customer... give us the ZA zooms in native M43 mount with electronic controls, please... I understood the division; Panasonic Broadcast and Panasonic Consumer don't really talk to each other, so I could see it if the Zeiss SLR division didn't spend much time communicating with the Zeiss Cinema division, but ... well, hopefully the folks I spoke to listened and will bring it up with the SLR lens division, because there's a rather substantial market of us out here who would love something like the ZA 2.8 zooms.
Lenses -- nothing to report, other than that I got tired of waiting for an announcement and I went to the three major companies and basically badgered them to produce what I (and I think most everyone else) want: a 12-60 to 17-80 f/2 cine-style zoom that covers the AF100 sensor but doesn't need to be any bigger than that, for $5k. Had some interesting meetings, some folks did seem interested in what I was proposing. We'll see if they make it.
I also told them all of another potentially huge market -- 1.33x anamorphics. Nobody's making 1.33's at all, Hawk has a set but they're extremely expensive and rare... one guy came up to me and said that the old LA7200 Panasonic anamorphic plastic cheapo thing was selling for $1500 on ebay!! 1.33x is the right anamorphic ratio for HD video cameras, everyone with an Alexa or Red or F3 or AF100 or DSLR would be able to use 1.33x anamorphics to get a 2.39:1 image... hopefully some lens manufacturer will pick up on that.
Okay, other things -- PL adapters were coming out of the woodwork. I counted at least a dozen manufacturers. At least. And two featured something I hadn't seen before but really liked. More on those in a future post.
The Birger adapter was there, and was really quite impressive... still in beta form, wasn't nearly finished, but they said it definitely will be shipping this May ("late May" was what they said).
New SDHC cards, Panasonic's introducing a "pro" line of SDHC cards -- waterproof, dustproof, shockproof, humidityproof, and with a testing program and computer software and hardware to verify them before use.
Saw a Manfrotto and a prototype VariZoom remote controller made specifically for the AF100, they looked pretty good and the VariZoom felt really good; didn't try the Manfrotto out. The VariZoom had all three functions - Iris, Focus, and Record start-stop; my FoXi has iris/focus only.
Recorders are everywhere; the one that looked most interesting to me was the Sound Devices PIX 240. ProRes & DNxHD, with high-quality XLR and AES inputs, a monitor, etc... looked really, really good.
Lots of baseplates designed specifically for the AF100 (including new ones from Solid, Atomic, and Vocas) and full rigs.
Zacuto had their EVF there... looked great.
Redrock were showing a prototype of their LiveLens Canon lens iris controller; it's a Canon mount for the AF100 that has an electronic control for the iris and a little LCD display.
What I most wanted to see was more lenses, but NAB wasn't the show for that, other than for Schneider and Zeiss to show off M43 mounts for their existing lenses. Voigtlander/Cosina, Olympus, and Panasonic Lumix don't exhibit at NAB, they'd likely show any new developments at PhotoKina or PMA or some other photo-oriented show.
I did hassle Zeiss about the ZA series of zooms, because I think a native version of those would be very popular -- Zeiss glass, a 16-35 and 24-70 zoom, constant f/2.8... what's not to love? You can use them now with a Novoflex adapter, but a native version with OIS and controllable iris would be pretty much ideal. The folks I talked to seemed to be a bit surprised at the request -- they were more from the Compact Primes division, thinking cine glass, and asked me "Have you seen the LWZ?" Yes, of course I have, and it's $45,000 -- that's not aimed at the AF100 customer... give us the ZA zooms in native M43 mount with electronic controls, please... I understood the division; Panasonic Broadcast and Panasonic Consumer don't really talk to each other, so I could see it if the Zeiss SLR division didn't spend much time communicating with the Zeiss Cinema division, but ... well, hopefully the folks I spoke to listened and will bring it up with the SLR lens division, because there's a rather substantial market of us out here who would love something like the ZA 2.8 zooms.
Barry_Green
Moderator
You can already get both of those benefits from the Nano today though -- it records 4:2:2, at high bitrates, directly to MPEG-2 in a Quicktime file. Isn't that directly importable to FCP with no "import" or "rewrap" or "transcode" process?
Barry_Green
Moderator
For Lumix or Olympus lenses, presumably new introductions would happen at consumer electronics or photography conventions. Upcoming photo shows: PMA Australia is in late June in Sydney, PMA is in September in Vegas, CEATEC is October in Japan, CES is in January in Vegas, PhotoKina apparently won't happen until September 2012...
Barry_Green
Moderator
A) it's Sound Devices.
B) it is an audio and video recorder, and its audio recording capabilities are said to be on par with their 7-series (702, 744, etc)
C) it was dual-platform supporting both ProRes and DNxHD
D) it can apparently record the embedded audio from the SDI while simultaneously also recording from the XLRs -- that should give easy access to four channels (if I read it right!)
E) it can record to CompactFlash, or to SSD, or to eSATA drives, your choice. It supports them all.
F) it supports timecode recording
G) it can use standard batteries like Sony L batteries, but there will be interchangeable plates so it can use other types of batteries too. And, it takes external DC input, so there's a chance it could be powered from the Swit AF100 battery even, which would just be totally dominant.
H) if you go with the HDMI version, it's only $1595 -- for a Sound Devices product! I paid $2500 for my 442 mixer and was considering getting a 744T for $4000+. Now, for $2595 I can get a video recorder, monitor, audio recorder, and whatever other fun tools they've stuffed into it, including SDI... it just seems like a steal. That's cheaper than a Nano, and the Nano is only 8-bit, has no monitor, and only has a 1/8" mini jack for input. The $2595 for the SD seems like a screaming steal for a chunk of gear from a company like Sound Devices.
You should quit making me talk about it, or I'm likely to go place an order. The more I think about it, the more I like it. If they would just add a 1:1 pixel display to their monitor, then to me it's a no-brainer. Not saying everyone needs it, but dang... that's sweet. And it would be something you could use as a dedicated audio recorder (can record four channels through AES including timecode!) or a dedicated video recorder, and with 10-bit ProRes and DNxHD you could record so-called "master quality" video from any camera today or in the future.
Just wish it had an AVI recording option for DirectShow for Win users. But who am I fooling, if FCPX works like Vegas and allows native file importing, at $299, I'll probably get that too...
Didn't see it, didn't bother. I think it's a great device for short-form burst recording, but at 800GB/hr on the most expensive media in the world, I don't see it as having that much of a general-purpose application. For the rarified few who need it, it's a slam dunk. For someone wanting to shoot events, it's impractical. It's not in the same league with other recorders (for both good and bad) -- I'm glad it's on the market, and I think there are folks who will be very happy with it, but I don't know that it will have quite the mass appeal that generated such interest here on the boards. $350 sounds great, but $2500/hr for recording, and six hours to offload an hour of footage -- that's more of a specialist item than a general-purpose item. Might be awesome for commercials and ultra-short-form stuff. Even P2 is 1/4 that cost now for AVC-Intra, you could have four hours of P2 for the cost of one hour of SSD. P2 is now practical for events, but the SSD seems like we'd be starting back at about three years ago. But, hey, three years from now it might be awesome. For ultra-short-form stuff it's definitely a breakthrough, for longer-form stuff it might be a little ahead of its time. Nothing wrong with it, just ... seems like a lot of overkill, but hey -- if you want the best, and can afford the storage, then it seems like it's the best.
Not that much more to tell -- it did what everyone wanted it to do. 3" small screen but when you flipped the eyepiece over it, it becomes this huge (seemingly) IMAX-sized display that everyone craves. I'm one of those who is content with a 2/3" broadcast viewfinder size (like conventional 2/3" video cameras provide, same size as what the AF100 provides) but lots and lots of people want huge viewfinders, and the Zacuto does it, and its build quality seemed impeccable (as is usually, if not ubiquitously, the case with Zacuto). I really liked that you could assign a commonly-used function to each of the three buttons on the outside of the unit, so pixel-to-pixel is a simple button press instead of jumping through the menus. My main interest in any of these types of products is for pixel-to-pixel in the smallest/lightest unit I can get, and the Zacuto certainly qualifies handily.
But I wouldn't buy it until getting a chance to use the SmallHD DP4, which seemed like it was going to be a major home run. $549 for the monitor, $749 for the monitor with the viewfinder piece. Didn't get a chance to see that one.
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NoahK
Hottie Mod
Also the Mix Pre-D is a sweet piece of gear if you're only looking to step up your audio game and don't need the video capabilities.
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/mixpre-d.htm
Noah
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/mixpre-d.htm
Noah
Alpha Beta Omega
Veteran
I noticed two things that really stood out and that's EVFs and video recorders. These are great add-ons and when someone merge these into one device (some are close) that'll be a great product.
Just imagine the Samurai with 1:1, false colours, zebras, aspect/zoom and eyepiece.
Just imagine the Samurai with 1:1, false colours, zebras, aspect/zoom and eyepiece.
Rolf Silber
Veteran
+1 - I'm buying in an instant.
ArtAldrich
Active member
One other note about the PIX units. They use a removable drive mount with e-sata, firewire, and usb on board. So you can remove the drive and tray, and plug directly into a computer.
Also, the esata port also takes power from the sata host card, so no external power supply needed. When I asked about that feature, the rep told me that almost all host cards can provide power over the esata port. I just find it surprising that no one else is doing this with external drives.
Also, the esata port also takes power from the sata host card, so no external power supply needed. When I asked about that feature, the rep told me that almost all host cards can provide power over the esata port. I just find it surprising that no one else is doing this with external drives.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
I couldn't agree more, & almost started a thread on this the other night.
Such a product would be like a "Killer App" & I'd be willing to pay substantially more for a quality all-in-one solution. I'd also hope for multiple mounting threads as I prefer to undersling an EVF from the AF's handle.
Best,
Bern
groveChuck
U-matic Member
Sounds brilliant! Especially points A, C and E (ACE?)
Aw Barry, don't try to delay the inevitable... just buy it (then test it and write it up!:happy
Re the Hyper Deck, I agree- it's great that it's there, but most definitely for a niche market.
And for lenses... is there a NAB for lenses- NALM? (Lens Manufacturers).
Oh, and Barry, regarding all the AF100s- were they on monopods, shoulder rigs, tripods- how were most using them?
Thanks for all the info!