My thoughts on the HMC 150 ( A review of sorts)

realdefender2002

realdefender2002

Member
DISCLAIMER
Hello everyone - This is my first ever camera "review". Its more or less a summary of some of the obvious strengths & weaknesses of the HMC150 that have been discussed before. This is for those who know very little about the product & its basic features, and my opinions are based on the 2 days I spent testing the camera. If you are looking for more in-depth reviews & detailed comparisons etc, this will probably NOT meet those requirements.


About me
Recent College Graduate; extensive background in Film & Video Production. Had plenty of hands on training since the age of 16 in 3 CCD Cameras & film gear; learned a ton but still got a long ways to go :)

I have no brand alliance; I flock to whatever Cam best suits my need for film-making. My last camera was the Canon XH A1; which I sold in June. I had it for a whole year, so some comparisons will be made between the two. I do not own the HMC; I had access to one during testing.

Cameras used
Canon - GL1, GL2, XL1, XL1s, XL2, XH A1, XL H1, HV series
Panasonic - Dvx 100b, Hmc 150, Hvx 200a
Sony - PMW EX 1

Product I'm reviewing - The HMC 150
The HMC 150 is a camera that I came across while browsing B&H Photo late 2008-early 2009. My initial assumption was that it was the listing was a typo, seeing as to how SDHC media was listed instead of the expensive P2 for recording media. The skeptic in me decided to wait a few months, and after a colleague of mine acquired one for his projects; I eventually got to play around with it. Here are my observations.

PROS
- Low light performance; Is it just me or is the HMC a ton better in low light than its predecessors? Its an improvement I wasn't quite expecting. Id say its better that the A1 in night shoots for it avoids getting that videoish look that the canon in prone to (in my opinion anyway).
- The 24p mode; has a great look to it...and its one of the main reasons Im drawn to this cam. Most of my film projects are filmed in that frame-rate, with client projects getting the 30p treatment. The 24p mode on other "True" progressive cams doesnt quite look the same.
-Rich, Saturated Images - The footage is so fine right out of the box that a beginner in Video can achieve satisfactory results without extensive tweaking. It also minimizes the time needed to spent on boosting levels & enhancing the image in post. Idiot proof, if I may call it that. Love the gamma curves.
- SDHC Media; inexpensive and reusable, nuff said :smile:
- 60p Slo-Mo - This was a feature that I wished I had in my A1. Its a game-changer of sorts, along with the SDHC implementation.

CONS
- Poor LCD; Now coming from the Canon A1 (smaller screen, better res)... I found the bigger LCD on the HMC to be average at best. For a camera that is capable of producing rich images, the LCD is an eyesore. The viewing angle doesn't help either.
- Leica Dicomar Lens; Although the ground glass in the camera enhances the Filmic look of the footage, the lens itself is on the soft side and leaves a lot to be desired. The focus ring was slow & the biggest deal breaker for me.
-Not true 1080; Ive had to edit tons of 1080 footage over the past yr or so, and my first impression of the 1080 HMC footage was "Did I just get 720p footage or what?". Most users are probably aware of the limitations of the uprezzing being done in camera, but why can't panny address that with an improved imager? Footage looks good though; wish it was full raster.
- AVCHD - Although its more efficient compression-wise than MPEG-2, the footage is very hardware intensive. My quad core workstation occasionally chokes while doing simple editing. Hopefully, updates to the NLE's can fix this issue.

CONCLUSION
The HMC 150 is an amazing camera that flat out rocks in the Filmic-Look department. The AVDHD codec, although difficult to edit on average hardware, is getting better with updates to the NLE's and such (Premiere pro's 4.1 update FYI, waiting on Sony Vegas to release a true AVCHD Update). The ergonomics, although Toy-Like, allow for easy adjustments while filming Im sure those wanting to film events will have a better time doing hand-held shoots with this Cam. In my opinion, this camera will be perfect with some improvements to the chips & lens system. I am also currently in the market for a replacement camera for my A1 and the HMC 150 might just be the one. Thanks for reading :grin:

K. Adithya Ashok
Link to my demo reel
http://vimeo.com/5530664
 
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Hi,

Thanks for the review. I think that the reason that low-light is exceptionally good is because of the low-resolution imagers that are used. So the tradeoff for the "soft" feel and the fact that 1080 looks like 720, is that you get good low-light. Personally I'm happy for the tradeoff: I don't need razor-sharp images necessarily, the character/color of the images I can get are far more beneficial to me.
 
Seems like a rather pedestrian review albeit that you did point out a couple of valid points. Usually there would be more direct evidence, interpollation, and or charts, and a substantial amount of time vested with the camera before making the choice to do a review of a camera. I'd say you did a cliff notes version of a review with a wee bit of FUD in there to boot.
 
TigerFX:
You might be right. I dig the footage produced by the HMC; the 24p mode especially but coming from the XH A1, the drop in res is noticeable, but I guess not that big of a deal depending on the type of project & client. Just giving hobbyists & prospective HMC buyers a basic idea of what they can expect with this Camera.

Justyn:
Thats why I mentioned its a "review of sorts". I had the the past few days to borrow & test a camera and these are my observations based on my experience with the HMC. Maybe Ill write an "in-depth" review one of these days ;)

Cheers,
K. Adithya Ashok
Link to my demo reel
http://vimeo.com/5530664
 
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As a new HMC150 owner, I enjoy hearing what others think. Every post on this forum is really the same as a subjective review - opinion.
 
PROS
- Low light performance;
- The 24p mode
-Rich, Saturated Images
- SDHC Media
- 60p Slo-Mo

CONS
- Poor LCD
- Leica Dicomar Lens
- Not true 1080
- AVCHD
Click to expand...

Tell me something i don't know!... not to be rude, but almost everyone that has been in this forums has read about every point you made. Or has the HMC150 and has realized this points you made!

I liked how you wrote it =)
Maybe I'll be more interested in the "in-depth" review
 
Superfresa66:
My review wasn't supposed to be something revolutionary; Im sure there are those who like a different perspective on previously discussed aspects of the HMC - don't forget the newbies who could use a basic review like this!

Regarding the "in-depth" review, I've decided to skip it for now - Im sure these forums are full of mind-melting info for those looking for more than just my basic summary of the Pros/Cons of the HMC. Besides, I got all the info I needed with my initial testing.

K. Adithya Ashok
http://vimeo.com/5530664
 
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You know sometimes reviews like this are all people need to know. If your not going to be making a budget film of some sort, all the in depth mumbo jumbo techo stuff can just purely get in the way and confuse things.

I liked the review,,, its simple, easy, takes into consideration all the important points that the average buyer like me needs to know, and based on reviews like this and others, has given me enough reason to plan a purchase in the not too distant future.
 
He's made good points, and done so without going overly-technical. I'd say he has his pros and cons just about right.

For me, the HMC has been great. But I'm coming from using Sony SD cams (VX series), so of course I'm seeing a big improvement simply shooting HD for the first time. However, I have no experience with other HD cams to tell how the HMC stacks up.
 
Yeah! It's simple and perfect review. I liked it!

BTW, I have made an In-Depth, More Technical review of HMC150, also compared with Similar Price-Range Cameras.
Would you like me to post it in new Thread?
 
Why is everyone trying to clown on realdefender2002.

He wrote something with a qualification that it is not "in-depth." No one MAKES you read a post. I don't get why people get so pissy sometimes.

Honestly, and especially with the obvious "do a search" posts, if you think it's stupid, don't keep the thread alive by replying. Jez... If no one says, "you could have done a search." then the idiot who begins a "where is the on button" thread will get buried in 5 hours never to be seen again. If they re-post and bump, then by all means go after them.

ON TOPIC: Realdefender, I thought that was a fine review, but I disagree with one thing entirely.... 1080p.

Coming from the HVX200 where the difference between 1080p and 720p was pretty minimal (but visable), I find the 1080p on the hmc150 MUCH sharper than 720p. Now those coming from Sony, I can see, and I think (really stress "think") it's because they apply a large amount of edge detailing, along with making detail a priority. Panny is really about richness and color. Sony's cams look great, but emphasize sharpness over other elements of the image. This is both opinion, and to some extent a general consensus.

When I read the posts and reviews about the hmc150 before I bought it I was prepared for owning a "720p" cam. When I actually shot footage, I was amazed at the difference. (Also amazed at how well the codec holds up in 1080p.) At 720p it practically looks uncompressed, it's fantastic, at 1080p it looks awesome still; also, I really like how avc handles motion.

Instead of pixelating when doing shaky cam, or a pan, it has this nice blur which adds to the 24p cadence. Probably doesn't look as good in 30 or 60p, but I havent recorded in anything but 24p.

Flame me all you want for my next comment, but I think avc looks better than early REDCODE. (To me.) I found redcode to exibit a lot of lego effects. I prefer a blur if compression is going to affect anything. Newer REDCODE looks much better.

Also to note: People are making a big deal about how wavelet is "better" than DCT. It depends. Wavelet is different, but certianly not automatically better. It's algorithmic advantages are primarily that they scale well when sampling, and are essentially more maliable when it comes to the challenges of post-production computational needs. And yes they are very efficient. But all things beging equal DCT is not necessarily worse in terms of picture quality, especially when it is a very advanced codec being applied and encoded properly like h.264.

I drool over my hmc150 footage. I compare it to my hvx200 footie and there's no comparison. (However, the 4:2:0 can be rough and needs to be smoothed in some shots. Don't get me wrong, the color is fantastic, we're just talking edges here. Otherwise, I prefer the avc look to the dvcpro hd look. I had huge problems with staristepping before.)

I'm glad you noted the low light, because I think this is where the hmc shines. The low light is fantastic! Also, the gain adds SO LITTLE noise! 9DB is not only usable, it looks good!

I shoot a lot in natural lighting. I love the look. Even in environments I can get some serious wattage shinning, I generally like the way things look in real life, and would rather block the talent so as to use the available light rather than add what I find very artificial lighting. Some lighting guys are geniuses and can make it look great, but I don't have access to them or the funds to pay a genius. :)

One last thing to add, is that unlike the DVX100 and hvx100, balancing for a "cool" look almost desaturated things and robbed that nice panny filmic mojo. On the hmc150... it still looks so rich! You can have it blue, gold, etc. and it's lush. It's not just the red/warm colors that stand out.

I for one am very grateful for this camera, and for panny in general. Not to knock the others. SI-2k, Red One, Scarlet, etc. They are all really cool cameras with great images, but pannys, for whatever reason have a very specific and wonderful look that the others don't seem to be able to replicate for some reason.

Maybe it's 1-chip vs 3-chip, dsp. Who knows. I buried myself in that technical stuff for so long, but ultimately it's all in the picture. What do You like? It's great we have all of these options. And it's important too. If Digital Cinema is to progress we need a plethora of choice just like Film has. Stock, cams, format. etc. Variety is extremely important for an artistic medium.

That's one reason why I think for all of the great things Red is doing... One Camera To Rule Them All may lead to homogeneity in the look of films, we want diversity.

Back on topic, congrats realdefender! I hope you enjoy your camera and with it you attain much success!.

Cheers!
 
What's the drawback to the Leica Dicomar Lens? I've never heard a complaint about it. Did I miss something?
 
We loved our 150.

What we didn't like was the visible artifacting, shimmering, and other issues when encoded to SD DVD compared to our 170.

The AVCHD original footage just didn't hold up as well in post and for encoding to SD DVD.

Other than that, pretty darn nice cam.
 
:dankk2: I am glad there are folks out there who can appreciate a simple review. I re-worked the disclaimer note earlier, so those looking for something more won't be so critical, "pissy" or disappointed when they are done reading. Yeah, people can be difficult sometimes :shocked: hehe

Regarding the 1080 stuff:
I don't disagree with you entirely. You made a valid point about SONY having more detail but Panny having better color & a richer image overall.

Im used to editing XDCAM & Canon XH A1 footage, which most folks here know are higher resolution at 1080 settings. The detail level on the EX 1 footage I believe is a lot higher (had to mess with the settings because there was excessive sharpening under a certain picture profile). The motion on the HMC however, is something else.

Now for someone such as me who shoots & edits exclusively in 1080, the res drop is obvious on the HMC (And I don't try too hard to pixel-peep either). Some want true HD that meets certain standards, some want rich images with better motion.

Cheers,
K. Adithya Ashok
Link to my demo reel
http://vimeo.com/5530664
 
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Quite a good, basic, to-the-point review you've got. Thankyou for pointing out the pro's and cons; for a prospective buyer like myself that is something that is greatly appreciated.

Again, thankyou!
 
arrestthisman said:
Why is everyone trying to clown on realdefender2002.

He wrote something with a qualification that it is not "in-depth." No one MAKES you read a post. I don't get why people get so pissy sometimes.

Honestly, and especially with the obvious "do a search" posts, if you think it's stupid, don't keep the thread alive by replying. Jez... If no one says, "you could have done a search." then the idiot who begins a "where is the on button" thread will get buried in 5 hours never to be seen again. If they re-post and bump, then by all means go after them.
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realdefender2002 said:
:dankk2: I am glad there are folks out there who can appreciate a simple review. I re-worked the disclaimer note earlier, so those looking for something more won't be so critical, "pissy" or disappointed when they are done reading. Yeah, people can be difficult sometimes :shocked: hehe
Click to expand...

What I said was not meant for criticizing realdefender anyway or to say "it is stupid".
As I said earlier, I Really liked the realdefender's review! It was very Clear and Simple.

What I said was a reply to Superfresa66, because he showed interest in "In-Depth" review.
So I just said, "I have it". (review was originally made for blog and not published yet)
(but forgot to quote him) Sorry!! :embarasse
--------------------------------------------------

But i don't understand what's wrong in it if some people want know the details more technically?
And what's so difficult about this? :undecided

Anyways, as Tiger said, the post is really Awesome, Arrestthisman! :)
 
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RaviSun3D said:
What I said was not meant for criticizing realdefender anyway or to say "it is stupid".
As I said earlier, I Really liked the realdefender's review! It was very Clear and Simple.

What I said was a reply to Superfresa66, because he showed interest in "In-Depth" review.
So I just said, "I have it". (review was originally made for blog and not published yet)
(but forgot to quote him) Sorry!! :embarasse
--------------------------------------------------

But i don't understand what's wrong in it if some people want know the details more technically?
And what's so difficult about this? :undecided

Anyways, as Tiger said, the post is really Awesome, Arrestthisman! :)
Click to expand...
RaviSun3D
I'm pretty sure that arrestthisman was most likely referring to someone else with his post :) some confusion there.

I did acknowledge all the positive feedback with a general "Thanks" in post #16 :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)! And there is absolutely nothing wrong in wanting to know more details & tech stuff. My review however, wasn't meant to go beyond the basic observe & report aspect. Id love to read your "in-depth" review; preferably on a new thread. Also, Ill be more than happy to link to your review in my original post.
 
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