My life sucks

No, he hired you. It was his responsibility to be insured. No excuse for you to pay for this at all.

Kegan
 
(XPost)

If you borrow your brothers Ipod and break it - sure buy him anohter one but this is business its different

He should not be operating commercially without insurance, his error/gamble - his loss

Imagine if you actually dropped it and it hit a kid and put the kid in a wheel chair for life, and the kid sued for $10 million

You would have paid that too ?

You should not mix with people who operate professionally without insurance

Insurance is cheap, the cost can be passed on to the client

Probably the guy got the gig over some legit traders, because he charges less due to his low overheads like no insurance and exploiting students

Im moving along ..

S
 
morgan_moore said:
If you borrow your brothers Ipod and break it - sure buy him another one but this is business its different

He should not be operating commercially without insurance, his error/gamble - his loss
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Agreed. Victor, you must not pay this skeezer anything. Walk away. Try to get paid if you can, but he is likely to put up a fight.
 
Going into a wedding without production insurance doesn't make someone a scumbag. It makes them desperate. You can certainly make the argument not to pay because it was a risk he took (unless you have a liability agreement), but that just means the producer made a poor choice.

I had a job about a month ago where the event we needed coverage of started during an exam, so I had to send my assistant. After I got out of the exam (patient assessment, which I was really stressed about) I checked my phone for a text - 'in wreck, not going to make it to location'. Eventually I found out he had been hit by a woman he didn't check traffic before leaving her driveway, which pushed his car into a semi, crushing the passenger half pretty completely. If the timing were a little different it would have been fatal, so he was happy to be alive. Of course this happened in a place with no cell service so I was left worrying about the worst case scenarios for an hour while telling the client I'll figure out how to fix the project later. He wasn't hurt, the equipment wasn't hurt and he replaced his car with an identical one... so lucky all around. But that's one of the jobs where I wish I charged more.
 
Victor Nhat Nguyen said:
But it makes sense right? you drop something you pay for it...
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That makes sense on the playground, but not at work. In my mind this guy is committing a double sin - being cheap by hiring students instead of professionals, then trying to screw said students when something goes wrong. Don't pay for it Victor, and never work for this guy again.

Cassius said:
Going into a wedding without production insurance doesn't make someone a scumbag...
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No, what makes this guy a scumbag is him trying to screw his employees when something goes wrong.
 
@ Nothing : who you calling a student and non-professional? NO, you're a nobody, you're nothing...JK though. But I'm starting out in this business so I need as many contact as I can get. I know this guy is at the low end but there have been a level of trust and friendship built over the last few month since I work with him. Being a good friend, I'll pay for it, but do you guys think I should recommend him to have insurance? can anybody give me more info about videography insurance?
 
We are calling you a student .. as you have stated , him non professional

You need the right contacts.. professionals

Of course he should have his gear insured and liability insurance.. its not that expensive and it is basic professional practice

Un insured he is not at the low end but below it, however nice a guy he is

Please understand we are trying to help you.. and the industry which is lowered by people who do not sustain professional practice

S
 
Ok, so lets recommend some good insurance options now that are not that expensive as I'm more than sure many people here could find it helpful :)
 
i don't know if its much different in the states, but: in Austria it would be like this: somebody breaks his equipment, your liability insurance will pay the repair... Its the same like i would hit your cam with my crane on a shoot and your cam gets broke - my liability insurance pays... thats different from equipment insurance, which just pays for my cam if i break it by myself, but that is not the case as you describe it...
 
Victor Nhat Nguyen said:
The lens wasn't mine. I borrow it from the guy who was hiring me as a second shooter for the wedding. We are doing low end weddings so that's why he wasn't insured. But it makes sense right? you drop something you pay for it. I graduated from high school last month and is signing up for college right now.
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Victor Nhat Nguyen said:
@ Nothing : who you calling a student and non-professional? NO, you're a nobody, you're nothing...JK though. But I'm starting out in this business so I need as many contact as I can get. I know this guy is at the low end but there have been a level of trust and friendship built over the last few month since I work with him. Being a good friend, I'll pay for it, but do you guys think I should recommend him to have insurance? can anybody give me more info about videography insurance?
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It's okay if you choose to pay. But keep this in mind: you are not supposed to pay for it, either as an employee or as a (true) friend. you might be a bit too young to fully understand business is, after all, just business.

if he's a true friend of yours who asks you to help him out (with mostly your own gear, I guess), he should never allow you to pay accidental damage to the equipment, regardless who owns the equipment. In other words, if you accidentally break your own lens while helping him out, he should take the responsibility to get it repaired, no question asked. If he insists on you paying the bill, he's not really your true friend, but someone who's taking (unfair) advantage of you befriending him. What if you broke your own camera? Would he let you pay everything?

if he hires you to work for him, you work for him as an employee (even though a friend outside business). You don't own the lens or anything that he owns and lets you use strictly for the work purpose. As a result, you should never be held responsible for any accidental damage to it or liability accidentally caused by it. If he's an honest employer, he'll never ask to pay for such damage incurred during regular business practice but not caused by you. If you guys have signed a contact which states otherwise, of course, you'll have to follow the contact unless prohibited by the law.

In any case, whether or not there is an insurance covering such damage is totally a different issue. You are just not supposed to pay for it.

However, if he's your cousin or brother or time-proven true friend, who has been so nice to you, I would suggest that you just pay the bill, no question asked.

In all possibilities, no need to blame yourself. Actually, if you are indeed inexperienced, then your friend/employer really sucks who takes the risk of asking/hiring an inexperienced shooter to help him make money but has no guts to accept the cost of the risk.
 
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okay guys here are some updates. The camera shop try to repair it with parts sent from Canon, but the parts didn't fit. They try twice, and it still didn't fit. So they sent it to Canon. Canon fix it and sent it to the camera shop which sent it to my employer. Why he didn't just send it to Canon in the first place I don't know. But now I owe him about $750...:crybaby:
 
Funny story-- it's different in some states, but most states have labor laws which say employees-- that's you-- aren't responsible for damages incurred with equipment being used on a job-- that's your broken camera/lens. The reasoning behind it is, the employer, who takes the profits, also takes the risk. You, who do not take the profits but merely your hourly wage, share NO PART in the risk of running the business. Also applies to waiters getting stiffed on checks or cashiers coming up short at their drawer count. Most employers don't mention that when they start deducting from your paycheck, but it's totally illegal.

He's your friend, you don't want to pull the law into it-- fine. But, you shouldn't have to pay for it... and him asking you to isn't very friendly.

For future options, most schools offer incredibly cheap insurance for gear (I once got one that covered ANY gear I used, right down to my laptop or TV if I wanted to claim it... and now I think I just have one that covers film gear on shoots). Probably you have to have the gear damaged during school work, but... whatever.
 
henryqiu said:
If he insists on you paying the bill, he's not really your true friend
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In this world everybody is your friend until the bill comes. I've crossed paths with many people just like that, and more today then ever. Look for a new friend.
 
I tend to get clumsy when I'm "in the flow" being creative... dropped most of my cameras but never broke anything. At the moment though, I got three (!) RMA's in one week... my 5dmk2 died, then my computer, then my SSD. So basicly this month I'm enjoy being free of all the tech, LOL
 
When we were shooting Wayward Traveler we were in Vegas and for the first time I was actually winning at the slots. I sat down at the Star Wars machine. I was up about $900. I won, about $50 on the machine. MY camera man walked up behind me and said. "Jesus Christ, Stop winning." The moment he said that I won $400 on the machine but someone stole my $400 camera that was next to the machine. Then, I never won another nickel, the exhaust clogged on the car in the middle of the desert requiring use to hitchhike 150 miles back to Vegas, we lost a P2 card in Death Valley, got sand in the focus ring of the camera, the RV blew all 4 tires on our way to LA, I got mono-induced hepatitis, the muffler fell off the RV, then the alternator went out, Sears screwed ou power invertor order so we had 10 days with no power in the parking lot of an El Cajon McDonald's in 110 degree weather. Probably - for right now - you should just form your fingers into a rectangle viewfinder and hope you don't break your fingers in the process.
 
In my country if an employee breaks something he has to pay for it... Every waiter has to pay for his broken plates, otherwise they would never get good at their job.Recently a truck driver who was transporting food had an accident, all his merchandise spilled on the road and the gypsies came and stole it. Now he has to pay for all that missing food.
 
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..his merchandise spilled on the road and the gypsies came and stole it.....

Classic stuff.

Victor, I know where you are coming from. Sometimes its hard to separate business and personal issues if you are working with someone you know. Technically he should pay for it, because you were employed by him. But you feel guilty because you're the one who actually dropped it.

Maybe you should talk to him and meet him half way on this; 50/50.

Edit; I see this was a number of months ago. How did it work out in the end?
 
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