Music video sync problem nervous breakdown

Blackout

Blackout

Veteran
Ok.... I have done music videos before with no big issues...

I play the whole track from CD on a system, and everyone lipsyncs...
I take the GH1 footage, then line it up with the original wave, and
boom I have lipsync all the way through.

I am having some strange funk happen on this latest shoot where that is not working.

I am lining up the first beat hit of the song to the micosecond on the waveforms... but after about 3 secnds it's out of phase.. and then the beats are doubling.. and then they REALLY drift... and I have no idea what the hell is going on.
I am editing in sony vegas 9e with 24pn hacked gh1 footage. I have shot tons of stuff with seperate sync sound and never had this issue... I have done music videos before and not had this issue.


So... everyone is in a panic..... this was a $5000 day with a lighting truck.. models.. dancers... my small crew...

putting on my Sherlock Holmes thinking cap.... I am trying to figure out just what the hell is going on...

The wave track is 44.1 .... the gh1 audio records in 192 48k...
could that cause some timing issue? I don't think so because I upconverted the song to 48k and it still happened and I also downconverted the gh1 to 44.1 and it still happened.

It seems to me.... that the BPM on one of the tracks is faster.... a DJ was in charge of playback... could it be someone touched his bpm meters and sped it up or down? you know how djs match beats by speeding up the bps while pitch shifting so the vocals still sound right.

IF that is the case..... how to correct it? Is the whole shoot screwed? Is there a way to find out the bpm of something in vegas...? I think acid may have that option.

don't know if it would work off of the gh1 audio though because it's not the best quality just enough to hear the song and sync it up.....

Something was OBVIOUSLY different between the track I was handed on CD and the track that everyone lip-synced to and it drifts very fast.. within 1 measure it's a phase shift, 2 measures a double echo beat, and 3 measures completely off..but the vocals dont sound chip munked or anything. I am thinking somone thought the DJs bpm meter was the volume and sped up or slowed down the damn song....

Usually I am in charge or one of my PAs on playback and I just do it on a standard CD player.... but they had some fancy shmancy DJ so I was not on the controls nor was one of my guys.

HELP?

- Blackout
 
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Can you adjust the playback speed of the original track to match the video? Or under/overcrank the video slightly to match the music?
 
what Ben said.
if it was the dj changing tempo, you'll have to change yours to match (isn't Vegas supposed to rock at audio?).
i do think though that the 44khz sampling rate could have something to do with it, but if you can normally upsample and keep sync, then it might just be adding a degree of confusion to the problem. sort one out first, then the other.
good luck!
 
The whole shoot is not screwed. However, you should have recorded; GH1 @ 24pN and Audio Playback @ 48khz

Sounds like DJ played back @ 44.1khz and may have adjusted speed.

Get in contact with DJ immediately and ask what device he used to playback and what speed adjustment he might have used. Maybe he can spit out an *aiff* at speed record for you to sync with picture. I would not worry to much you can convert/adjust audio to match video, not the other way around. But i know how you feel... you just want it to work. Good luck.
 
It's obviously a bpm issue... someone MUST have touched his mixer and speed up the tempo.. there is no way it would drift out of sync so fast.

The song is a 5 minutes song..... the version recorded on the gh1 is like 4 minutes.. thats a huge change.. and I don't think they even want the song going that fast....

I mean it is out of sync in 2 seconds.. this isn't a tiny drift.. but with todays technology since the vocals sounded fine I didn't catch it. Usually I am in charge of playback and I have never had a problem before.

If I can find the exact bpm in acid (vegas wont do it) I could increase the tempo of the track and theoretically fix it... but it's ridiculously faster.

I am blaming this on the clients DJ. I strongly suggested that I do playback but they said insisted on him so if it has to be a reshoot. So be it.
 
What happened is equivalent to a time stretch / crunch in sony acid. Strangely enough I am not finding the opting to do this in vegas which I thought was "acid" with video.

I don't think the client wants their 5 minute song coming in at 3:50.... it is a total different groove. I think if I can find the bpm of what the dj did.. I could fix it... but, I have a BAD feeling that the bpm is changing all over the place.. someone thought the bpm lever was volume is my feeling when the dj took a break.

It sucks cause I got some BEAUTIFUL twilight footage on top of a penthouse... with gorgeous lighting on the 20mm lens....
 
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If you don't mind resampling the audio, and it is a sample rate issue, you just need to do the math to get it to the right length. You can do it lossless by changing the pitch if the music, or lossy by time stetching, or a combination. Just calculate the total seconds, get a percentage, and recalculate your sample rate, substitute the track. Sounds like a pretty big difference, so the pitch change might not work.....a difference of 20 percent is too big to be a 44.1 vs 48 issue.
 
It's a BIG difference. That's the issue. It can be done if I can figure out how fast it was increased or and toy with it... but I have a BAD feeling that the bpm meter on the DJ thing was changed multiple times by an idiot who thought it was the volume... in which case it's a total disaster and the only shots that can be saved are non lip sync shots.

I explained this to clients and they are willing to pay for a re-shoot of the three main lip-sync parts.

If you wanna see just HOW ridiculously off sync it is, here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfBpjeyabrY&hd=1
 
CD player is not a good idea for playback, I had lot of problems with it, if the clock of the CD player is not accurate there is NO WAY to match audio with the video, you MUST use ipod or similar, if you have a video capable ipod you can stamp the time code (with the time code reader in FCP) on the ipod screen and use it as a clapboard for perfect sync, sorry for my bad english.
 
Huh. If they change bpm through-out, then only makes sense to reshoot. ~ Sorry again. ;(
 
you could try to slow down the footage slightly (might cause potential troubles) and speed up the song a little bit. Also, did you double check that the "original" track (the one you were handed on CD) you got is playing at the correct speed?
 
maxminoia said:
CD player is not a good idea for playback, I had lot of problems with it, if the clock of the CD player is not accurate there is NO WAY to match audio with the video, you MUST use ipod or similar, if you have a video capable ipod you can stamp the time code (with the time code reader in FCP) on the ipod screen and use it as a clapboard for perfect sync, sorry for my bad english.
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Just play a test tone through the CD player and it will give you the speed, you can measure the pitch, or use a masterclock.
 
It turns out that I was correct and the client had one of their 'helpers' touching the DJ's bpm slider up and down between takes thinking it was the volume. So it's a reshoot.

They were more than overjoyed with the quality of the hacked gh1 footage and booked me not only to re-shoot the lip syncs which are screwed , but another video as well. So we're going to follow up with a two day shoot.. fix the issues with the first video and shoot a second video. Hey... more business for me I'm not going to complain. I'll be able to take the stuff that isn't lip syncing from the first shoot and still use it.

I was scratching my head there pretty hard for a while though.. never had this happen before.

One of the guys on the shoot was taking stills with a 7D and asked "how the hell are you getting that resolution out of the GH1, the 7D is better.... but I have never seen it look like THAT.

I just smiled.
 
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Blackout said:
One of the guys on the shoot was taking stills with a 7D and asked "how the hell are you getting that resolution out of the GH1, the 7D is better.... but I have never seen it look like THAT.

I just smiled.
Click to expand...

LOL.

I'd be like "ssshhhh I took apart a varicam and shoved it in here." or "GH1? What's that? This is a GH13." Or, "GH1? This is the RED scarlet prototype, don't tell nobody."
 
mrmoe said:
Sorry to hear. Try using: MixMeister BPM Analyzer 1.0 http://www.mixmeister.com/bpmanalyzer/bpmanalyzer.asp

Before blaming anyone, I would try syncing up, so that you give them the option of using fast version vs. reshooting. My2cents. The lesson is... when on "your set", you will make all decisions, including sound playback.
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Hey Moe, this looks interesting. Out of curiosity, will it work on the GH1 audio that isn't very loud and has all sorts of togther sound and me yelling direction and ect.. will it still pick out the beats and figure out bpm? Or will it only work on a direct wave track?

Doesn't matter too much now as the client has decided to re-shoot and pay for it but for my own curiosity I would like to see what happened to all the bpms.
 
Blackout said:
Hey Moe, this looks interesting. Out of curiosity, will it work on the GH1 audio that isn't very loud and has all sorts of togther sound and me yelling direction and ect.. will it still pick out the beats and figure out bpm? Or will it only work on a direct wave track?

Doesn't matter too much now as the client has decided to re-shoot and pay for it but for my own curiosity I would like to see what happened to all the bpms.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it should work. Give it a go. Glad to hear you are doing reshoot and getting another gig. Congrats. Im in NYC should you need extra hands w/GH!3. Cheers.

Moe
 
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