music copyrights

linkdafourf

linkdafourf

Active member
just a question. I am filming a feature student film that i would like to submit to some film festivals. Just curious. if you record a cover of a song, and its not the actual performers recording, but just you and a friend singing it, is that copyrighted? or is it cool to use. just wondering, thanks.
-ryan
 
That requires a mechanical license, which is much cheaper than a sync license (required to use the original recording). Unless the actual song (lyrics and melody) are in the public domain, they are also copyrighted and require clearances.
 
and if the composer has been dead for something like 50 years or so then you can do it without a license as long as "your friend" is doing the cover....or maybe it's a hundred years....you like motzart? even then, get them to sign off on it for festival rights or risk getting sued by "your friend" if the film is a success. i had a buddy turn on me once as well over music in my film, so don't risk it. there's a good hand book you should invest in called "the pocket lawyer for filmmakers" and it gives some pretty good insight into all legal aspects of production including music rights.
 
Paunch said:
and if the composer has been dead for something like 50 years or so then you can do it without a license as long as "your friend" is doing the cover....or maybe it's a hundred years....
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That's not necessarily true. Copyright law allows for extensions and renewals, even for descendants of the original compsers. There are plenty of songs written well over 50 years ago that still maintain copyright. Try anything from the Carter Family... still copyrighted and strictly administered. The "Happy Birthday" song is still copyrighted as well after nearly a hundred years, and that copyright isn't set to run out for some time yet.

You need to do the research on that particular song to see who holds the copyright on it. Once you have that information, you can go through places like Harry Fox Agency to get the mechanical license to allow you to record it.
 
well, i know the guys from "good old war" arent dead, so they definalty still have a copyright to the song it self, so just to be clear, if me and my friend covered the song, and recorded it ourselves, that would still infringe upon the original composers work, correct? since it is there lyrics and melody?
 
I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure a mechanical license will NOT cover you. The mechanical license covers you playing the song and even covers you selling the song you've recorded, but if you use the song you've recorded in a movie, that is synching and that, if I'm not mistaken DOES require additional licensing.

Just PLAYING and RECORDING and DISTRIBUTING a cover is one thing, using that cover in a movie is something else (as I understand it).

Usually Barry or someone is around to answer these kinds of questions in detail.

Barry?!

:D
 
Basically, yes. You can record pretty much any song you want as long as you pay the appropriate fees. But using it in a film requires additional rights, which are not automatically granted.

All this is something you absolutely, 100% want to consult with an attorney about before you proceed.
 
C2V said:
That requires a mechanical license, which is much cheaper than a sync license (required to use the original recording). Unless the actual song (lyrics and melody) are in the public domain, they are also copyrighted and require clearances.
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Mechanicals are for distributing a cover song as an audio recording per se, such as including it on a CD you're selling. They are unrelated to placing the music and lyrics in juxtaposition to images as a film/video soundtrack. For that you still need a sync license from the copyright owner. What recording it yourself does eliminate is the need for a master-use license from the record label that released the original recording.
 
linkdafourf said:
well, i know the guys from "good old war" arent dead, so they definalty still have a copyright to the song it self, so just to be clear, if me and my friend covered the song, and recorded it ourselves, that would still infringe upon the original composers work, correct? since it is there lyrics and melody?
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Yes it would infringe if you did not clear either a mechanical license (in order to distribute your recording as an audio recording) or a sync license (to use your recording in the soundtrack of a film). The copyright on the music (words and musical notes) is separate from the copyright on a recording of music. When you record it yourself, you don't have to worry about the copyright on other recordings by other artists but you're still using someone else's intellectual property since you're using the words and music they wrote or published and that you still have to license.
 
right, and basically i feel liek there is no way any big artists would take a student film maker who just wants to get into some festivals serioulsy, and the cost to licence it even if they did respond back would be way to expensive. oh well...
 
i see, i just have no idea how to even go about talking to someone about that. I tried emailing one bands agent one time, and never got a reply, i figured they just shrugged it off as unimportant. is there an easier more direct way?
 
Go to www.harryfox.com. This is the agency that handles most mechanical and synch licenses and will give you a lot of good information regarding copyright and who to contact for a certain song. It could be a record label executive, a producer, or the artist themselves. Most times it is NOT the artist who owns the copyright.

I wouldn't give up on wanting to use the song just yet without trying. It is very common that a band or artist will agree to have their music be a part of such a project as you have. It shows diversity in their music and how it can apply to more than just a live concert. There is a lot of money out there for artists when their music gets played on TV or in major films. Being showcased in a student film opens their music up to that industry. Being a student film and in festivals the cost may not be as expensive as you might think. You are not making money on the project. The industry average for non-exclusive licensing for an independent documentary or student film is between $50-$100.
 
Bomonsilver said:
Go to www.harryfox.com. This is the agency that handles most mechanical and synch licenses and will give you a lot of good information regarding copyright and who to contact for a certain song. It could be a record label executive, a producer, or the artist themselves. Most times it is NOT the artist who owns the copyright.

I wouldn't give up on wanting to use the song just yet without trying. It is very common that a band or artist will agree to have their music be a part of such a project as you have. It shows diversity in their music and how it can apply to more than just a live concert. There is a lot of money out there for artists when their music gets played on TV or in major films. Being showcased in a student film opens their music up to that industry. Being a student film and in festivals the cost may not be as expensive as you might think. You are not making money on the project. The industry average for non-exclusive licensing for an independent documentary or student film is between $50-$100.
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Alas, Harry Fox no longer deals with sync licenses. One needs to contact the copyright owner / publisher directly.

Mechanicals are for recording and distributing cover songs as an audio recording. They do not apply to syncing music in a film or video soundtrack even if you record the performance yourself. For that, you must have a sync license.
 
thats a bummer, the price that you mentioned is actually very reasonable, if I could talk to someone and get a song for that cheap, that would be amazing. I guess the logic behind student films being cheap makes sense, now i just hope i can get a hold of someone.
 
The answer to your question varies dramatically depending on what legal jurisdiction you are asking about. For the United States...

A Mechanical License is required for distributing sound-only copies (CDs, LPs, cassettes, MP3 downloads, etc.)

A Synchronization License is required for putting music into the sound-track of a film or video production.

In the US, the copyright law provides for Compulsory Licenses at Statutory Rates for Mechanical (sound) licenses. This means that once a song has been recorded and released the first time, the owner cannot deny you the right (license) to distribute your own "cover" recording of it. However, you must pay for every copy distributed (whether for free or for $$). The law sets a license fee (a certain number of cents per copy depending on how long it is and what the current rate has inflated to.) You are free to negotiate a different fee (including free) if the owner agrees. The Harry Fox Agency makes a business of selling modest-quantity (500-2500 copies) licenses at the statutory rate automatically online.

However there is NO Compulsory License and NO Statutory Rate for Sync licenses for music in film or video. You must negotiate with the rights owner for each song and each production. Harry Fox has a database online called "Songfile" that makes it easier to identify the owner of any particular song.

Since there is no compulsory license or statutory rate in the US, many (most?) rights-holders won't even deal with small-time producers because it costs more to involve the lawyers than it is worth. That tends to create a rather high threshold for using popular music. If you are producing a multi-million dollar Hollywood blockbuster, then you probably have the budget to use most any popular music you want. But unless you have the $$$$$$ or have a personal connection with the rights-holder you can probably dismiss any notion of legally using a popular recording, or even a self-made cover recording of a popular song.

For that reason, there is a brisk business in "production music". These are music recordings created specifically to use in film/video, and priced to be affordable for such use. Many of them are "sound-alike" or have the "feel" of a certain song or genre of music. There are many vendors of this kind of music, and more of them are putting their music online so you can browse through them and purchase and download them on the spot.

As mentioned before, this is the situation in the US. In other countries there IS the equivalent of "compulsory licensing" and "statutory rates" for film/video music. Some of them appear to be as easy and inexpensive to use as mechanical licensing is here in the US.

Note that some production music vendors have special rates for student productions and/or special licensing packages for "festival distribution", etc.
 
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