Mic options for bouncy environment

G

George Loch

Well-known member
I have a shoot in basically a warehouse with a white cyc. It is bouncy. What are my best options for a mic to deal with the echoes?

-gl
 
I've recorded in that sort of environment more than I care to realize. So for me, I've had pretty good results with some shag carpeting or at least a couple layers of thick sound blankets underneath talent (and strategically placed elsewhere...maybe get white/black blankets so you don't create too much negative fill for the cyc) and a Schoeps with an MK41 capsule...perhaps an MK4 capsule would do a bit better, but I don't have that. More generally, some sort of hypercardiod will have a reasonably-narrow pickup pattern and smallish rear lobe. But it depends on what you have available... A Rode NTG-3 or Sanken CS3e would be better than a Sennheiser 416 in that environment, I'd say....but again, not as good as a hyper.

Then if needed in post, I/they will apply a touch of iZotope RX De-Reverb, or Zynaptic Unveil, or something similar (I have RX so that's what I use):
https://rxcookbook.izotope.com/reducing-reverb-rx-de-reverb-module

Wear some good headphones during the shoot, too. I find my Sony 7506 overemphasize live room 'verb...so if I can get things to sound sort of OK on set, I end up being fairly happy (at least) with the tracks during post.

That's my take at least... Good luck!
 
Thanks, Jim. So, basically a small condenser mic with a super or hyper cardioid capsule would be the greatest container?
 
Worry less about the mic and more about laying sound blankets, the thick heavy ones, underneath the entire talent area and build side panels up along either side of talent. I just shot a series of interviews in a huge hotel ballroom, 40' ceilings, all white plaster on walls, with wood parquet floors, total echo chamber. We miked with the Schoeps CMC641, worked perfectly. Any good cardioid variant will do, if you build a "sound blanket tunnel" around the talent.
 
What are you shooting? If it's a person, then a wireless mic with an omni lav close in will tame the space. If you are thinking of any form of distant miking, the the space is going to be in the audio - signal to noise, voice vs void! If you are using a white cyc, then I doubt somehow you can build absorbers around the talent. Is it just a voice you need to record?
 
So George, building on the useful comments everyone has made so far, what are you shooting in the cyc? Sit-down interview? We're-in-heaven angel sequence? Car commercial with talent walking around the car and extolling its great MPG?

Do you have the option of some sort of body-mounted mic, or do you prefer (or must you) boom it?
 
I agree with Paul and an omni lav is the best option as it gets the mic closest to the source, don't push the gain too much though as all you will do is bring up the stuff you don't want.
 
An lav is best for a reverberate space. In my experience, the Sony ECM55 was great for reducing room ambience and extraneous noise, but unfortunately it's huge by today's standards. De-verb software works to a extent but shouldn't be considered as substitute, it also generates artifacts, so even the most expensive hyper mic can be compromised.
Beware, sound blankets are very, very slippery on the floor. Don't put them an floors where cast and crew walk.
 
Hi all
i have a similar problem so I'll ask here rather than starting a separate thread.

I'm planning a series of sit down interviews in a community hall (holds around 200 people) and it's totally reverberant.

The reason is that the subjects will all be elderly and because of Covid-19, I want an area with plenty of room to distance.

I did an initial test yesterday and I suspect my treatment with blankets was lacking, so I will have another try shortly.

My question is; to try and reduce reverb, do I place the subject in the middle of the room or in towards a corner?

cheers
 
I did an interview in room with high ceilings hard walls terrible acoustics. Used a lav and cardio mic recorded to separate channels (both were bad). So I can confirm without acoustic treatment, if you can hear the echo so can the mic. Well unless you use a dynamic mic half an inch away from their mouth. ;-)
 
doubledark said:
My question is; to try and reduce reverb, do I place the subject in the middle of the room or in towards a corner?
Click to expand...

Nobody puts Baby in a corner.

But seriously, stay away from the corners. They just trap and magnify reflections, especially on the low end (bass traps). If you can throw some blankets on the floor under the interviewees, as close as possible but out of frame, and maybe even hang a few off-camera on C-stands, you may be able to knock reflections down enough. Other than that, as has been mentioned previously in this thread, mic proximity is key.
 
Hi Alex, thanks for your reply. I did as you suggested(2mx2m carpet on floor + moving blankets on stands to the sides and infront of talent); sound is better but still there is reverb
 
There are some rooms that just cannot be 100% tamed, only notably improved. Lavs will help as the torso will absorb a lot.

If you need to use boomed mics, use hypercardioids. They won’t eliminate the reflections, but they’ll respond much more naturally.
 
I've found adding a music track helps and once you get into the content your mind becomes accustom to it and tunes it out just like in real life.
 
I don't have the keylight set so I've placed the two side hanging blankets where I "think" they need to go. I may be able to bring the blanket on the keyside in a tad closer.

I think the placement of the blanket on same side as the boom stand can be improved by bring it closer to the talent and either booming over the top of the blanket or eliminating it all together and just using a lav.

The lav mics I have are Rode and Giant Squid. Listening again this morning, the Giant Squid sounds pretty good but it is very sensitive to cable rubbing.

I'm not a great fan of music under the audio for talking head.

I'll go back this morning and experiment a bit more.
 
doubledark said:
I don't have the keylight set so I've placed the two side hanging blankets where I "think" they need to go. I may be able to bring the blanket on the keyside in a tad closer.

I think the placement of the blanket on same side as the boom stand can be improved by bring it closer to the talent and either booming over the top of the blanket or eliminating it all together and just using a lav.

The lav mics I have are Rode and Giant Squid. Listening again this morning, the Giant Squid sounds pretty good but it is very sensitive to cable rubbing.

I'm not a great fan of music under the audio for talking head.

I'll go back this morning and experiment a bit more.
Click to expand...
I own a Giant Squid. It's a low end mic that has a large capsule and a very basic clip with only one fixed mounting option. Any lav if not position and attached optimally are susceptible to clothes and moment noise.
 
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The best you're going to get would come from sound blanket on ground under talent, wall of sound blankets on either side, just out of frame,
and sound blanket on top, stretched over them, high enough for your lights obviously. Takes some c-stands, sandbags and time but it would
mitigate a lot of that. I shot interviews in a concrete garage and did this, made a sound blanket tunnel and it reduced slapback echo
and reverb by about 60%. Not perfect, but usable.

Definitely hypercardioid and I would take a listen with my three types of lavs to hear which picks up the fewest room reflections.
Always double mic when you can, choices are good.

If you do this and are willing to spend some money, there are "De Verb" plug ins that will reduce echo and room reflections but like any
audio plug in, you can use it to slightly improve but if you apply heavily, it will sound terrible.
 
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