Mic for recording music for use in film

Elmer_Lang

Elmer_Lang

Well-known member
Howdy--I would appreciate mic suggestions for recording songs for vocal and guitar, eventually to be used in film.

I'm looking for one reasonably priced mic that can do it all, isn't the SM 58 a classic that keeps on giving?

I do have a Tram TR50 lav which I actually used a couple years ago to record a song live, shockingly, it wasn't too bad but I can't believe there isn't something that wouldn't work better. I wanna go up to B&H today or tomorrow but would love to hear what others think so I don't go up completely stupit(sic).
 
The SM 58 is good for voice (although more commonly just used for voice on-stage), it can work very well for studio vocals (depends somewhat on the voice though).

What kind of guitar are you doing? Mic'ing an amp? Acoustic? What kind of room are you in?
 
Are you asking about recording music on the set or recording material in the studio? Two very different animals.

The SM58 is a dynamic mic great for live vocals and a few other uses. There are many mics that are much better, but are also more expensive.

In the studio I've been using the Neumann TLM 103 for vocals, although on occasion I'll use the AKG 414BUL/S. On acoustic guitar I've been using both the Audio Technica ATM-41 (off of the neck) and the AKG-C1000S (off of the body). It all depends upon the performer and the material and what you have in your mic closet.

The bigger studios have very extensive mic closets and pick each mic based on the voice/instrument and the tonal coloration of the mic.
 
There are too many to choose from and it depends on the source material. Best budget mic, but too heavy for a boom, Studio Projects B1 at $85. Next up, a non-counterfeit modded oktava with preferably several capsules. Excellent for music, plus interchangeable capsules. In the $700 range, a lot of people use Neumann KM184, or the KM185 hypercardioid, I don't use them, but I see a lot of them in use. There are lots of choices in this price range. Top of the line is the Schoeps MK41, which you should consider renting if it is too expensive. Over the last 20 years, that is the mic I lean on.
There are lots of other choices, and some of them are a little off the wall. For example, the Stellar RM4 is an excellent voice over mic (with a pop screen) or spot mic, but it is not a household word. If you buy a cheap mic, suppose it craps out during the session?
Thing is, you should try the Zoom H2. The mics are decent for music, and you would have to pay way more to get better sound.
 
Thanks to all for the great advice!

I'd love the more expensive models but my range is more $150-$300.

I"m using a Yamaha acoustic and will be recording in my bedroom.
 
Condensor mics are ideal for acoustic guitar. The Oktava 012 is a great condensor mic.
and often used for drums and acoustic. When used on location it has wind noise and handling issues. When used in a studio it has none of those. It's in your price range - a no brainer (especially since, if you are a filmmaker or videographer, you can use it for location sound too, with wind protection and shockmount)
 
Are you multitracking (recording the guitar, then overdub the vox), or doing it live?

For best results, you'll still want to get the mics in closer than a "one mic for live performance" setup - especially if your room doesn't sound that good, or if you can hear AC, traffic, etc through the windows.

My #1 recommendation - find someone doing ProTools or similar at home - good music recording fills forums as large as this one. You might find someone getting good sound who will do it for free (since after you record it you should consider EQ, compression, mastering, etc...)

The Oktava mentioned above is a great choice, especially if you'll be making your own films - get it with the hyper cap. It's a highly regarded "budget" studio mic, the kind that can get pulled out in pricey studios as well. Requires phantom power.

If you can only get ONE mic and you expect to do more of this - I'd still get two mics. Look for a used Sure FIFTY-SEVEN, not a 58 - IMHO (and many others') it's sort of the ultimate do-it-all mic (and it recorded Bono singing "in the Name of Love" and John Lennon singing "imagine" among others...). It's really not bad for getting a bright acoustic tone.

Then try to find a decent condenser; in my experience, nobody is making cheap mics as good as the ADK brand (and their service? They treat you like you bought a Neumann from 'em). The SC-1 (small diaphragm) and A-51 (large) are by far the best deals I've tried. (I choose the SC-1 over my AKG most times, and the A51 is... well, google it - I love mine, and choose it for acoustic guitar over some pricey mics). Of course, you'll need phantom power for those.

Seriously, this kind of thing is easily as never-ending as filmmaking. The toys, the dollars, the learning curves, the possibilities - I'd look in your local alternative paper want-ads, etc., haunt some recording forums like Gear Slutz - lots of people will record you for cheap or nothing if the song is good, and it will sound better than you may be able to pull off.

I'm no expert, but if you want to learn more about recording at home, I have a series of "Getting started with Pro Tools" posts on my blog - most of the info applies to home recording in general, not just ProTools - it's a "what's worked for me" scenario to be sure, but hey, learn from my pain:

http://www.cloudyproject.com/pro-tools/
 
Thank you both, gents, for the excellent info!!

Jus' curiously, I went to B&H today, they didn't have the Oktava, but a pretty cool guy showed me some others. The thing is, in trying them out it was obvious one couldn't use them at home since they pick up very sound within a thousand miles. Is the Oktava similarly sensitive? Looks like I need to find a room.

Thanks again.
 
The gear, the speakers and the room are a circular problem. In a good room you hear all of the flaws of your speakers; in a good room with good speakers you hear all of the flaws in your gear. Once you have all of those pieces in place you start hearing the flaws in the source material; sloppy playing, mediocre vocal performances and the like.

The Rode M3, Rode NT-5, AKG C1000S, and Audio-Technica AT40** series would all be quality choices. Yup, they're probably more than you want to spend. But you are making an investment in your future, if this is in fact what you want to do.

The Shure SM57 is an old standby, but it is a dynamic mic and not particularly sensitive, plus the fact that you would need a fair amount of gain to get a decent sound out of it.
 
elmerlang said:
I"m using a Yamaha acoustic and will be recording in my bedroom.
Click to expand...

As unclebob alluded, the room itself is going to have a lot of impact on your recording, and since you are setting up in your bedroom you really need to think through your setup.

First, condenser mics are certainly a better choice for many things in studio recording, but their higher gain/sensitivity will hear every flaw of your bedroom. Since your room is most likely not acoustically treated, your recording will sound very hollow and unpleasant. Dynamic mics will record less of the room, but may not sound as good when all is said and done.

The other option is to treat your room... while it's probably a little out of your budget (or way out of your budget), it's necessary. It's better to treat the whole room, but you can build your own gobo that will provide a "booth" for recording. Not a perfect solution in an untreated room, but very effective nonetheless and also relatively cheap to build.
 
On the other hand... producers like Daniel Lanois are known for using entire houses as recording studios, and there's plenty of cool pix of his recording gear set up in a living room a few feet from the band (including the drums).

Of course, he really knows what he's doing... taking the "room" out of a project like this isn't impossible, especially since you're not dealing with lots of volume and lots of bass (IE, no drums, no guitar/bass amps, no huge standing waves from a kick drum, etc).

If you're dead-set on DIY:

Deaden the room as much as possible - quilted moving blankets will go a long way for simple vox and acoustic guitar;

If you're recording direct to computer, be aware of drive and fan noise;

Vocals can sound very natural with subtle noise-gating, but once you throw a compressor on a voice (and 90% of vocalists really need some compression, and it's a natural for acoustic guitar as well) room sounds can become a big issue (but an overall room tone can sound surprisingly good when compressed into a voice - all depends on the room, but the hissy whoosh of HVAC never sounds good, especially when compression fades it up at the end of every phrase).

An earlier post pushed for condensers over dynamics (specifically my recommending a Sure 57 - and yes, the technical reasons are sound) but the 57 (and the 58, Beta 58, and other dynamics) also just plain sound good, with really musical humps and dips in response that can be very forgiving to vocals and can sound damn good on a decent acoustic guitar (and we all know about guitar amps with the 57). The 57 is pretty directional and can go a long way to getting around room problems. And they can be found for under a hundred bucks, making it a real "should have" if you're getting into this sort of thing.

I still feel this thread is the equivalent of "what lights should I use for my first short and what is color temperature anyway?" (not trying to be a douche, but endless microphone discussions are such a minute part of what the original poster may truly need); it's the very familiar feeling of someone embarking on a lifelong learning curve, like looking at a Rembrandt and wondering "#2 or #3 pencil??" Well, you have to start somewhere - I certainly did! - but if a beginner is dead-set on going down this path, I'd suggest one of those starter kits of mic, speakers, software and interface, and then prepare for a lifetime - literally - of learning what to do with it.

And, if you have a deadline for completion of this song, be prepared to get into some sort of studio setting (even using a guy like me who's doing commercial and personal work at home) if you're disappointed in your first foray into it. Don't be dissuaded though, recording music is as exciting and rewarding as any other tech-meets-creative pursuit these days, and the bar-to-entry has been dropping for a MUCH longer time than it has for filmmaking. Like filmmaking, you may be a natural, you may get great after hard work, or you may really never "click" with what it takes to sound pro - but you can do beautiful, professional work for a much lower outlay than the same level of filmmaking, IMO.
 
elmerlang said:
Thanks to all for the great advice!

I'd love the more expensive models but my range is more $150-$300.

I"m using a Yamaha acoustic and will be recording in my bedroom.
Click to expand...

If you are only getting one mic under 300.00 I would suggest the Rode Nt1a large diaphragm condenser. It's great on male vocals/VO and is good on acoustic. Just place the mic at the 12th fret where the neck meets the body, back 8 inches. Turn the mic towards or away from the sound hole to get mor/less bass.

It's also the lowest self noise mic out there. At least it was at one time. Of course there are better mics, but again Rode has a great bang/buck ratio. Also they have a 10 year guarantee.

Check it out:

http://usa.rodemic.com/microphone.php?product=NT1-A
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top