Manual sound control: is there hack for 550D or must I buy 600D? Automatic OK?

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daktulus

Well-known member
I think about buying the 550D or the 600D. Or maybe the Sony alpha 33. Does the 5D have manual sound?

Is there a way to get manual sound control for the 550D or is it impossible?
Does the 600D really have full manual sound level control?

How bad is automatic sound control in interviews, is it usable for TV stations?
 
Magic Lantern for the 550D will defeat AGC and add manual level control.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?218686-Magic-Lantern-for-550D-in-progress!

As for usability, well... the audio circuits in these cameras are not high-end. The Magic Lantern hack and the right outboard rig for a 550D/T2i will result in much higher quality of audio over what the camera can do by factory specs. Good enough for TV? Well, for news... sure. I mean, news has never been known to be that concerned with perfect audio. If it was for a narrative project, especially for theatrical release, there are much better sound solutions.

What the 60D has that the 550D cannot offer is the swing-out LCD screen.
 
Thanks. Here in Europe we also have the 600D (maybe this is T3i in USA?), besides the 60D now, which I think already has manual audio built in.

How safe is the Magc lantern hack, can you remove it and recall factory settings somehow?
Especially if something is wrong and you have to garantee-repair the camera, you would want to send in the camera with original software. Is it possible to remove magic lantern again and have the original settings/software back?
 
daktulus said:
Thanks. Here in Europe we also have the 600D (maybe this is T3i in USA?), besides the 60D now, which I think already has manual audio built in.

How safe is the Magc lantern hack, can you remove it and recall factory settings somehow?
Especially if something is wrong and you have to garantee-repair the camera, you would want to send in the camera with original software. Is it possible to remove magic lantern again and have the original settings/software back?
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If it hasn't changed recently, the way I understand it is this: The Magic Lantern hack is not a "hard" hack in that it does not change the camera's firmware...it operates off of your card. Take out the card....you're back to normal. Pull the battery, and you're back to normal.
That being said, every hack has the potential of screwing up your camera, or you may experience lock ups on occasion when operating with the hack.
 
True enough, and I believe they're still calling it pre-beta - one of the reasons I haven't hacked my T2. The other is that you'll get far better sound using a Zoom or other stand alone sound recorder. Ease of use is also a plus, as the sound man isn't tied to the camera.

I think ML is very cool, but in the long run it doesn't seem to affect the image quality for the better. If you need/want zebra stripes and the like, then it's certainly a nice option. But I'd look long and hard at getting a separate sound recording device regardless.
 
jdv said:
True enough, and I believe they're still calling it pre-beta - one of the reasons I haven't hacked my T2. The other is that you'll get far better sound using a Zoom or other stand alone sound recorder. Ease of use is also a plus, as the sound man isn't tied to the camera.
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If your production crew has a dedicated sound guy, then I agree- He should have his own recorder, monitoring headphones, etc. But what if you're not filming a narrative with a crew like that?

In my line of work, I do a lot of interview style shoots. I've found that if you're running and gunning as a one-person crew for docu-style shots, etc, having a separate recorder is an extra hassle that often does not add enough value to to be worth it all the time. Its not only another part of your rig that needs to be set up, but it requires extra steps in post production.

I think ML is very cool, but in the long run it doesn't seem to affect the image quality for the better. If you need/want zebra stripes and the like, then it's certainly a nice option. But I'd look long and hard at getting a separate sound recording device regardless.
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I disagree. ML adds a lot more useful functionality than audio.
Even with an external recording device, I don't think I could ever go back to using a DSLR without Magic Lantern for video work. Forget the live zebras and histogram, or even the live audio monitoring via headphones. The focus assist controls are phenomenal. Focus peaking is cool, digital follow focus controls and even some basic (albeit slow) autofocus routines for truly hands-free operation... but what really makes it indispensable for me, is something they call "Magic Zoom" (or something similar). What this does is take the area at the center of your view and magnify it into a little live box slightly to the side. You can then use that little magnified area to help pull proper focus, all the while still being able to see how the rest of your shot is framed. This is a MUST when working with manual focus as far as I'm concerned, especially if an external monitor is not available to help.

But even if using an external HD monitor, the 550D can't output more than SD while filming, which means you don't get any more pixels than are currently available on the camera's own display. This ML feature actually shows you pixels during filming that would be impossible to see otherwise, and is a killer feature for focus pulling IMO. So, you can't really say it "doesn't seem to affect the image quality for the better". How about adding features like Kelvin values that can be dialed in manually for white balance? That's a feature only the higher-grade cameras are supposed to be capable of (the 550/t2i does not allow it in the native firmware at all). These tools easily help create a picture that would be difficult if not impossible to achieve without.

But anyway, yes, Magic Lantern exists on the card and does not replace the Canon firmware at all, but rather exists as a layer of enhancements on top of it. And I see absolutely no reason for any T2i owner NOT to be using it! ;)
 
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No argument - ML adds a nice variety of bells and whistles. ML may help an operator achieve a result easier, but in the long run it doesn't actually provide an image you couldn't get with an un-hacked T2. It adds some nice features to be sure, but at this point - for my use - it simply doesn't seem like it's worth all the trouble.
 
jdv said:
No argument - ML adds a nice variety of bells and whistles. ML may help an operator achieve a result easier, but in the long run it doesn't actually provide an image you couldn't get with an un-hacked T2. It adds some nice features to be sure, but at this point - for my use - it simply doesn't seem like it's worth all the trouble.
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*cough* Manual Kelvin values *cough*

The T2i is the only DSLR from Canon not to include Kelvin adjustment, which is pretty weak. I've heard some pro photographers say they could never consider the T2i a professional camera because they can't tweak that to their liking.

Lame. ML to the rescue.
 
From wiki:

"Most digital cameras and RAW image software provide presets simulating specific ambient values (e.g., sunny, cloudy, tungsten, etc.) while others allow explicit entry of white balance values in Kelvin. These settings vary color values along the blue–yellow axis, while some software includes additional controls (sometimes labeled tint) adding the magenta–green axis, and are to some extent arbitrary and subject to artistic interpretation."

OK, you got me. You can really really WB with ML. Not a feature I consider a must have, but again if ML has something you must have, such as adjusting the Kelvin, then great.

But seeing as how the primary question was about sound, I'll stick to my guns on this one. Buy an out board sound recorder.

One other point - how many "pro" photogs would buy a T2? Seems like it's aimed right at videoograpghers...
 
Because it isn't, at least not %100. And it's unwise to say otherwise.

First, as soon as you use it, you are voiding (arguably) your warranty. Second, Magic Lantern's website itself advises that the firmware could brick your camera - thus its pre-beta status.

More to the point, I don't think anyone said it's wasn't safe - just whether or not ML could give the T2, et al, good manual sound recording, and whether or not the benefits of installing ML outweigh the negatives.
 
jdv said:
Because it isn't, at least not %100. And it's unwise to say otherwise.

First, as soon as you use it, you are voiding (arguably) your warranty. Second, Magic Lantern's website itself advises that the firmware could brick your camera - thus its pre-beta status.

More to the point, I don't think anyone said it's wasn't safe - just whether or not ML could give the T2, et al, good manual sound recording, and whether or not the benefits of installing ML outweigh the negatives.
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You keep talking like there are "known negatives" about it.

Using a Tamron lens also voids your warranty. You don't see anyone saying not to do it. (technically any non-canon accessory voids your warranty)
Yes, there is the slim chance that you can burn out your camera by doing something it wasn't meant to do. But it doesn't pose any more risk than mounting your camera on a DIY rig that wasn't as sturdy as you thought it would be.
There are no stories of ML breaking anyone's camera, with the only exception being user error from what I understand (used something made for the wrong camera, and even after that I'm pretty sure they got it working again). In fact, I'd be willing to say that DIY rigs and aftermarket accessories like brackets and flash extensions, or cheap SD cards cause more camera failures than ML ever has.

And yes, the website itself says it isn't 100% safe, because they have to for liability. Half of Google's services are still listed as "Beta", but it doesn't stop anyone from using them, nor should it. Heck, ever go to an ice rink that states "skate at your own risk"? Would you choose not to skate there because there is a warning in place?

I don't mean to get all defensive, but if you are scared to try ML, that's your own prerogative. But it sounds like you're trying to scare others, and that's not fair! You're depriving people of an excellent tool!

Find someone with a negative experience to post about. Then we can talk.
 
Not scared of installing it, nor did I - in any post - advise not installing out of fear. Install a way.

Jeez, I just don't think you're gonna get great sound out of these cameras. :thumbsup:

But, I'll tell ya what - I'll download it and take 'er for a test spin.
 
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jdv said:
Not scared of installing it, nor did I - in any post - advise not installing out of fear. Install a way.

Jeez, I just don't think you're gonna get great sound out of these cameras. :thumbsup:

But, I'll tell ya what - I'll download it and take 'er for a test spin.
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LOL- now you're talkin!

And remember, ML is about a lot more than just audio!
 
So it took about 3 hours, but I got it to down load. Some initial thoughts:

Many of gee whiz gizmos are one's are won't use, or would rarely use, including the rack focus, trap focus, and zebra stripes (which I never trust, regardless of the cam). This was pretty much as I thought. Simply don't need that fine of control of the Kelvin, but maybe if I shot greenscreen.

But the sound changes are significant. It does change the sound from unusable to usable. Is it fine for interviewing your local city mayor? Plenty. Good enough for a narrative film staring George Clooney? Well, maybe - but I'd still rather use a dedicated recorder. Having any wire hooked up to a camera tends to slow it down and limit access to places, particularly audio cables which seem to have a mind of their own.

For a tiny or one man crews, ML for audio is absolutely necessary. The change is worth the effort. The histogram/RGB meter is certainly welcome tool, as are the crop marks (which I will essentially use just to black out the top/bottom of the frame. Not game changers, but nice).

I need to get some class 10 cards so experiment with higher bit rates. Perhaps it will make a minor difference - but hey, take what you can get.

So the bottom line for me: If you're shooting a narrative film with a crew, get a sound guy and a zoom. Use in-camera firmware, or ML, if you have it, as reference/emergency sound. One man crews run, don't walk, to ML and get it.
 
daktulus said:
I think about buying the 550D or the 600D. Or maybe the Sony alpha 33. Does the 5D have manual sound?

Is there a way to get manual sound control for the 550D or is it impossible?
Does the 600D really have full manual sound level control?

How bad is automatic sound control in interviews, is it usable for TV stations?
Click to expand...

Magic Lantern will give you sound control that is miles ahead of the 60D, 600D or 7D. Apart from full time audio meters and level control, it also allows use of headphones through the AV jack.

The 600D (and 60D) give you some degree of maual control but it is still not very good. It gives you audio meters during live preview and you can control the audio level (though there are not many increments). But as soon as you hit record, the meters disappear and you can no longer adjust the levels. So basically the only thing it does is disable the AGC while recording - which can be even more of a disaster than AGC if you can't monitor or adjust sound, because the whole audio track could end up peaking and distorting.
 
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