Makeup, does a Drama film really need it? Can I take role as makeup artist?

A well trained indie makeup artist will usually get something like 275 per day and maybe 175 for an assistant.

Don't think you need an assistant? It takes 30 minutes to put an actor through makeup. Yes, 30 minutes. That's how long it takes after they show up on set. So if you have more than two actors make sure your makeup guy has help or you will all be sitting and waiting for him.
 
JonathanLB said:
LOL, only a makeup artist would think they are worth $900/day, sorry to burst your bubble. It's not THAT complicated of a task. Now if you're doing horror makeup where it's really intense and closeup are being filmed of zombies, great, that's tough work, and you have to be really good at what you do. There may only be a handful of people who are really the best in the world at that and major features need their services. They are worth it because it's simple supply and demand. But simple beauty makeup? Get real. If you think you're worth $30, $40, $50 per hour or more, you have to be kidding yourself.

And people with ridiculously inflated opinions of what they do don't deserve real responses.
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You my friend must work in the low end of the spectrum. $900.00 for a Top Make-up artist is not out of the question.

Sorry to burst your bubble.... But make-up artist working on major fashion projects make much more than that!

Now..... Do you need a $900 make-up artist for your project..... Only you can answer that. The better your talent looks....The better your images will look....



frisco
 
JonathanLB said:
haha, pretty much. I wouldn't shoot a serious project without a makeup artist, but I don't have the type of budgets to hire BOTH a makeup artist and a hair stylist, then on top of that a wardrobe person. That really is not necessary on most projects, even features. The first feature I want to shoot has 5 people in it. There's absolutely no need for a wardrobe person, not when it all takes place in the same night. We can task someone else to manage the clothing continuity, like the script supervisor, who I will have. Then as far as makeup and hair, there's again no reason the same person can't do both. There are many talented people who are used to doing both on indie stuff.

I have noticed that more than some other technical professions, makeup artists think they are worth ridiculous amounts of money when really most of the time they just aren't. I had people write to me saying, "Oh, low budget music video, sounds cool. I'll work for $750." Uhh, I said low budget moron, $750 is not even close. I got a great makeup artist for $150, she's worked on a ton of stuff, she actually asked for $100 but I said I'm not comfortable paying you that little, haha, so make it $150, and I've worked with her since, she's always done a good job. The needs we had for makeup and hair weren't extremely complicated, but on the music video they were actually pretty advanced, a lot of changes for the girl, so she did a fantastic job. I had someone else ask for $900. A few $600s. Most of them in the $300 range, which is reasonable and fair, but come on, $900, get real. A makeup artist can be a high school dropout, I'm not paying someone who does freakin' makeup $900 per day. Not until my budget is $100 million, then maybe I won't care enough and we'll get some ridiculously overpriced professional because they're 5% better than someone who is 500% cheaper, lol.
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OK, let me get this straight... EVERYONE here is telling you you're wrong and you still stick with the same story? Do you not understand what real filmmaking is about? Or are you just argumentative towards everyone? You really should learn to stop and listen to people before you open your mouth and speak (or put your hands on your keyboard and type). People here are trying to help out because they KNOW what they're talking about. You don't seem to know what you're talking about and yet you continue to belittle given professions? How old are you? Twelve?
 
Tom Marshall said:
OK, let me get this straight... EVERYONE here is telling you you're wrong and you still stick with the same story? Do you not understand what real filmmaking is about? Or are you just argumentative towards everyone? You really should learn to stop and listen to people before you open your mouth and speak (or put your hands on your keyboard and type). People here are trying to help out because they KNOW what they're talking about. You don't seem to know what you're talking about and yet you continue to belittle given professions? How old are you? Twelve?
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Let's not get ugly here. I think the point Jonathan is trying to make is that there are different levels of skills that command different prices. I'm sure there are plenty of make-up artists who deserved their $900/day rate and then there are people who are competent but aren't quite as skilled. When your budget is low you're not gonna be looking for the top tier talents because what they offer is beyond what you need at the current level. There are people whose rate and abilities are "good enough" for what you're doing. It's about balancing the budget and arranging priorities. I would love to have someone from the ASC shoot all my films but I'll just have to make do.
 
I'm not getting ugly. The poster is clearly trying to agitate people with arrogance and I don't appreciate it or think it's welcome around here.
 
Here's a great analogy:

You can go to Earle Schrieb and get your car painted for 250 bucks. It will be painted.

You can also take your car to a custom body shop and spend 8000 bucks for a paint job. Why would I spend 8000 on a paint job??? Because you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
 
Tom Marshall said:
Here's a great analogy:

You can go to Earle Schrieb and get your car painted for 250 bucks. It will be painted.

You can also take your car to a custom body shop and spend 8000 bucks for a paint job. Why would I spend 8000 on a paint job??? Because you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
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If I'm participating in car show then I'll shell out for a paint job. If I just need a fresh coat then I'll go for the cheap job; it works. Granted you do get what you pay for but sometimes you don't need all the flash and bling. You spend what you can afford.
 
Huy Vu said:
If I'm participating in car show then I'll shell out for a paint job. If I just need a fresh coat then I'll go for the cheap job; it works. Granted you do get what you pay for but sometimes you don't need all the flash and bling. You spend what you can afford.
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Sure, I'll agree with that. But that 8000 dollar paintjob is worth every penny to the right person. It's not anyone's right to badmouth that paintjob or to say the person who charges 8000 dollars is a hack or has no need to have any talent. Any high school dropout can pick up a paint gun and shoot a Pebble Beach show car? No f*cking way...
 
I think we have to make sure, we talk about the same task.

If you need a simple makeup for a guy, that´s a different beast than a girl makeup with hairdo or a bloody zombie including prosthetics.

I watched a professional (450 Euro by the way) film makeup artist doing basic makeup for guys last week.
All he used was grease makeup and some transparent powder.

Everyone that can do a peanutbutter sandwich could have done that.
You don´t need to go to academy for it.

Than he did some girls (hair and makeup) and he did wonders.
The before-after effect was breathtaking.
You need lot´s of practice and skill for that.

He later showed me some prosthethics he does (colored with airbrush)
And that was real art. Practice and skill don´t cut it here - you need talent.

Using a grease makeup palette and transparent powder is something everybody can learn very quick. It´s better than the stuff out of the wives handbag and way better than nothing.

Hair and girl makeup is difficult but I know some talentet persons who can do it without beeing on a makeup shool.

Prosthetics and Airbrush and whatnotZombieStuff - leave it to the pros or climb a steep, long learning curve.

Of course everyone can learn almost anything (all the makeup artists arent born with those skills), but it takes time and practicing.

Frank

....and Tom, I just forked out $8000 for a new paint job on my 41 Chevy cause the mexican $150 sprayover was chiping off.
I done it because I had the budget, but if I would not have it, should I stop driving the car?

On UNZEIT I did the makeup including prosthetics (the first time for me after watching some Youtube lessons) cause I did not have any budget. Not glorious but good to go for a first try I think.

Should I have no makeup at all or stop making the film cause there is no budget for makeup?

If I have a budget I´m happy to get a mekeup pro but if I have no budget I try to do the best that I can.
It´s as simple as that.
 
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As a comparative pricing, all the technicians we send out from our workshop to do makeup jobs or prosthetic applications normally earn £200-250 per day.
 
Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez said:
I don't really want another person on site for shooting, we are going for everything without permits, so another head would just call more attention, so,

Is makeup really necessary?

Is there something that the makeup artists do in great drama films that I don't know about? For regular shots and not blood or sweating scenes? Any one know of any links where one can read up on for basic makeup stuff?
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I don't know much about makeup and I'm not trying to start a flame or argument. I'll just tell you what I've done. My budgets have always been below $25K and most of that went for food, props, equipment, gas and locations. On my first feature I worked with a Makeup Artist and we shot scenes with makeup and scenes without. In the final product, you couldn't tell which scenes had makeup and which ones didn't. That's not to say she was a bad makeup artist. I was just lucky to have actors with great skin and few to no blemishes.

In the second movie, we didn't have a makeup artist. The girls did their own makeup. And the guys went to MAC and bought a compact that was close to their skin color. They applied powder to themselves to take the shine off. Everything looked cool. You couldn't tell from the final shots if they had or didn't have makeup.

I worked with a short that had a full crew. 30 people. Lights, Grips, etc. I was the Asst. Director. The makeup people were always the slowest folks. They worked in the industry. And even though the women looked nice after they had "fixed them up" - the didn't look much better than the girls doing their own makeup and hair from my second movie. The short wasn't that good and in the final version - the hair stood out as super fabulous, but everything else was just okay. Nothing major.

All that being said, would I work with a Makeup artist. Sure. Would I pay them - sure. Do I think you always need one? Depends. Do your actors know how to apply makeup? Most of mine have been to modeling school and know how to do their own properly and would show others how to do it. Do your actors have good or bad skin? Is their skin waxy or oily? Do they need a "color boost"?

I think the advise everyone has given you thus far is good. But all of these things depend on your budget, story and time.

For my next movie, I'll probably have a makeup artist only if the budget goes over $160K. I've had good luck with actors checking their own stuff and with a female producer (a trick that I've learned) on set that is always watching out. What I noticed is that women are picker about appearance than men are. So having a female producer that is on set watching will generally notice a person's hair getting messed up, or makeup starting to wear down.

Hope this helps.
 
Postmaster said:
....and Tom, I just forked out $8000 for a new paint job on my 41 Chevy cause the mexican $150 sprayover was chiping off.
I done it because I had the budget, but if I would not have it, should I stop driving the car?
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Absolutely not. But don't go enter a fancy car show like Pebble Beach because you'd have no chance whatsoever in having good results. :)
 
Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez said:
So Im directing a feature film, a drama, no bloody moments, etc, so,

Should I really hire a makeup person?

There will always be girls around, can I just buy a big thing of powder from the local beauty shop or ebay and say if a guy's or another girl's face is shiney, I can just ask them to powder him up?
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Girls may be able to do their own make up for going out to the club, but not for film, unless they've gone to charm scho... I mean modeling school...

Boys in general do not have a clue about make up... Girls have no clue about how to make up boys... even if they are boys who go swish...

People who go to cosmonaut school don't know about film makeup...

Now, for a 'no budget' film perhaps there's a make up artist around who's interested in learning about film make up... perhaps there's someone around who has had some minimal experience, and so you get something comensurate with your budget...

If you were to hire a makeup person, get a 'demo reel' of their work as it is captured on film...

The tendency these days in even big budget films, is to lighten up on makeup, so perhaps for some types of film, 'powder to reduce shine' is sufficient... but what about acne... wrinkles... bloches... bad tan... who knows what...
 
I have worked with the same makeup artist for the last year. She is a gem. She loves film making and does not make herself above other roles--as she offers to help as PA/script advisor/craft services...etc. Find a person like this and you are golden.
 
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