Magic Lantern enables 14-bit RAW CinemaDNG on 5D

I can remember digibetcam metal tapes costing about $80 ea. for about 35 mins (?) beginning of the noughties.

5 years ago a 1 terrabyte WD drives cost about $300 each with firewire. Today now you can buy 3 to 4 terrabytes HDs for around $120 or so and thats far less money than tape use to cost & far less than a CF card or dreaded P2 card.
 
squig said:
Hehe I wish I was doing something wrong. It's just how ACR works. If you only do really minor corrections you won't see it. I spent days getting to the bottom of it and I know for sure it's an ACR issue.

10k+ is what a system to cut a feature on costs. You could skimp on that but when your raid array crashes and you don't have a backup :badputer:
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I've completely whacked MK3 footage to see how far it can stretch and exported, no flickering...
 
Surf it Mike said:
I can remember digibetcam metal tapes costing about $80 ea. for about 35 mins (?) beginning of the noughties.

5 years ago a 1 terrabyte WD drives cost about $300 each with firewire. Today now you can buy 3 to 4 terrabytes HDs for around $120 or so and thats far less money than tape use to cost & far less than a CF card or dreaded P2 card.
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You're gonna trust 3 or 4 TB drives at the cost of $120. Better buy 16tbs worth and triple backup if somebody else is financing the footage. Backup upon backup and back that up.
I will estimate that since I've gone fully digital (for stills) back in 2002 that I have at least 100 TB's of drives full of images. One in studio, one in studios fireproof safe, one at the bank in a lockbox. ANd I have to update those all the time.

i get it that drives cost less. I buy them too. Is your time coming down in price? Are you getting cheaper?
 
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squig said:
Which is why I'm spending 10k+. Try shooting 300Gb+ a day for 50 days on a 3k system.
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You'll be converting to proxies for 5 months on that old computer. While your computer is maxing out you might have enough power left to check dvxuser and see that the canon mk4 shoots compressed raw natively and is supported by all major nle's.
 
@ dustylense not sure what end of the business your in but if your shooting live stuff sport, racing, concerts raw is not for you. However others including myself arn't in that end of the business so our workflows are tailored to deliver something else.

What do you store all you existing digital media on now LTO, tape , film they all fail at some time just like hardrives. Back up of the back up of the back horrible isnt........but that's the 21st century way & safe........still cheaper than shooting & archiving 35mm filmstock. Like you I have wardrobe full of HDs but you know what......... I don't care its the price of doing business.
 
dustylense said:
You'll be converting to proxies for 5 months on that old computer. While your computer is maxing out you might have enough power left to check dvxuser and see that the canon mk4 shoots compressed raw natively and is supported by all major nle's.
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Hehe. Rendering raw files in AE takes about 5x longer than H.264 on my macbook pro. Apple might be announcing a new mac pro next week, that should cut rendering time down substantially. There are already workflows that create proxies on the fly, just no mac versions yet.
 
I was watching a video on reddit about the 3x crop mode, and it got me thinking. Has anyone tried to see if they can do something similar to what the Canon Cinema cameras do, which is a colour-aware pixel binning technique. That is unless this technique is already being used automatically?

You would need to film at twice the resolution of the intended output though.
 
Ok, so I got some questions and they may already be answered somewhere in this thread, but I am hoping for a kind and insightfull soul who is willing to take a few minutes of their time to spear me alot of time and answer this:

Is it or will it be possible to record through the HDMI to a external recorder(proxys and playback) while still recording the raw files to CF cards?
And is it theoretically a possibility that we in the future will be able to record the full sensor readout(5kish?) if the improved CF cards can manage the (enormous)datarate?
 
Already asked, is it possible to lock RAW function, so would not have to switch it on every time turning the camera on?

Can't wait to see a Mac RAW solution!!!
 
Surf it Mike said:
Now most with a 5D iii will be shooting raw, owners will start noticing that you don't need a 10K computer to work the files. Where did that come from BTW?

Anyway "POP" thats the sound of another raw myth disappearing.

P.S. What is the size of the ML Raw file say per minute ?
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I hope noone sees this as rude, but a lot of the people that were spouting figures and myths on various forums had never really actually worked with RAW and/or been pressed on a few occassions that demand results. It does cost more, but I don't know where the insane figures come from.

There are many ways to shoot RAW for the best image and still arrive at a very simple workflow. Granted, my Macbook did cost an arm and a leg, but even that's capable of handling everything RAW outside of 24FPS playback in Resolve.

People will learn now, but the major turn will be finishing, as in coloring and mastering. THAT is a different deal. Had two guys so far PM me over on the other forum telling me that they're fed up with trying to learn how to color, and just want Blackmagic to give them custom luts so that other people can remove that step from the process.

Learning curves.

Anyway, that's all to say that I agree with ya.

squig said:
Storage is dirt cheap these days, I paid $1000 for my 1st 1Gb HD, for that money now I can buy a 10Tb raid array!

Mac raw to CinemaDNG converter is operational :2vrolijk_08:http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=6218.msg46920;topicseen#msg46920
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Thanks for that, glad I can put the Alienware back to sleep!

EDIT: Oh how about that, it's Thomas Worth's converter. I knew he was on this. Freakin' perfect.

squig said:
I'm getting a 32 terabyte thunderbolt raid :happy: and an LTO-6 tape drive for backups.
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FYI I have LTO, and unless you have a dedicated computer for it, it is a pain in the face. The tapes are expensive, and worse of all it takes FOREVER to back data up. You basically need to have one computer doing that.
 
dustylense said:
Sparky? Are you editing 4K RAW on the Circa 2008 I7? Are you editing RAW projects that are 5-10 minutes in length for the finished piece with 3 TBs of shot footage? All while a client is breathing down your neck. Hand over first version and they ask for an adjustment in the edit and you have to fix and export again? Only to be asked for another adjustment?

If it were that easy, I suggest you step into a production house and look at the investments they have in computer hardware. Time is money...
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No, if I were I'd upgrade my main box. This is a hobby for me; I don't shoot professionally. I don't know why you're hammering your point home like this (to me); my response was to Squig saying you need a $10k box to process raw - you don't. I fire it up and let it render overnight; my "clients" breathing down my neck is just my wife wanting me to get out of the basement. :)
 
So I finally got around to testing the ML 5D RAW option this past weekend and I personally wasn't that impressed. Constant dropped frames even on my 1000x CF cards, could not get record times longer than a few minutes and no 1080p yet! Maybe some fixes will come later on, but as of now it isn't something I would even want to shoot a short film with. A step in the right direction, but so many bugs need to be fixed.
 
reem12 said:
IM having some what of a problem getting video out of light room. Not sure if there is a tutorial for how people are doing it but a link would be great.
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I don't use FCP but your will be exporting a series of still images out of Lightroom. If you can import those stills in FCP and have the program treat them as one video clip your ready to go. If FCP will not do this then you need to find a program will turn the stills into a video clip. Hope this helps.
 
sparky33 said:
No, if I were I'd upgrade my main box. This is a hobby for me; I don't shoot professionally. I don't know why you're hammering your point home like this (to me); my response was to Squig saying you need a $10k box to process raw - you don't. I fire it up and let it render overnight; my "clients" breathing down my neck is just my wife wanting me to get out of the basement. :)
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It's not directed at you as an attack Sparky. Note that please.

I have the same computer as you Kholi (I think) being the latest and greatest Macbook Retina fully loaded. Yes, it is capable of editing RAW. Even my 17 in Macbook (fully loaded) is capable (gave it to the wife but it's still really mine). I can use two computers to crunch raw. I can even qmaster them together to crunch raw or export. I can even connect the two of them to my 6 core dusty Mac Pro and qmaster them. But look at what I'm saying. Using three computers combined to compressor for more crunching power. The new iMacs will do the job.

There are all sorts of workflows. But there are also lots of brand new RAW motion shooters now (BMC's and MK3 with ML). Like I said, a 3 minute video of scenics is not all too hard to edit RAW mk3 with. It's when you have 2 or 3 hours captured footage with slate and story board that things begin to get more difficult. Now editing RED on a laptop isn't all that hard, but still at 4 or 5K you want some serious power to crunch it up like people are used to with workflows like HDslr or the FS700, c300/100 type workflow that they are accustomed too. Like I said, it's fine for personal stuff. But when faced by deadline of the I want it yesterday, a more powerful computer starts to weigh in the back of ones mind. (Or two computers).

The ML RAW shooters are not yet doing proxy editing with roundtrip to finishing is Resolve. THey are just going straight to the goodies because the quality is just so good and they are so impressed with working with RAW motion possibly for the first time.
My statements were never about HD's costs being a roadblock. But it is a fact that you will be using 3 to 4 times the hard drive in comparison to cameras like an FS700, a f100, C100, Hdslr all converted to say Prores. Sure, hard drives are cheaper. But like I said, on a paid job is your time cheaper? There are plenty clients out there for all sorts of fields that could give a rats ass about Raw or even understand it.

I agree with Kholi on the tape backup Squig. Sloooooooooooow. Archival yes, but SLOOOOOOOW. Even a cloud server with decent internet can be faster than tape backup. You might even be able to burn double layer DVD's faster than tape backup.

As for LUT's being supplied by Blackmagic. There are all sorts of guys out there selling LUT's for blackmagic. Denver Riddle is one of them.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from stepping in to RAW shooting and workflow. I'm just saying, be prepared for the extra costs (no matter how cheap HDs are now) and the extra time it takes to work with it. In the end, it's a benefit if you can afford it because you have image control (by afford it I also mean, what is YOUR time worth????). For me, 4k and 5K is not sharper. It's just bigger. Once you export that 5K image out to 1080 HD, it does not gain any resolution. But you can't take a 5 megapixel camera and blow it up to 30x40 and look as sharp as a 60 megapixel digital back. They are both the same sharpness at 8x10 prints but the 60mp back is native at 30x40 prints. 2.5k BMC is not sharper than the C300. It's just bigger. However, it is nice to have the ability to downscale. Now 4K in a 50 inch monitor is sharper than 2K in the same monitor size. Are billboards sharp. Absolutely not. Stand 5 feet away from one and they look horrible. But I've had countless billboards up in California from 12 megapixel sources that look great from the freeway. RAW is great. RAW is fun. RAW is powerful. But RAW takes extra effort in both time and cost. It just boils down to what you are shooting. We all want the best quality. That will never change. But sometimes, if it's good enough for client then make it good enough for you.

By the way, I just bought this 10TB thunderbolt raid and am getting 700MB/sec speeds out of the box and I love the device. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/910591-REG/lacie_9000378u_5big_10tb_thunderbolt_raid.html


It's not that you are going to NEED a 10k computer. It's more that eventually you're going to WANT it.
 
I think the ML work is literally genius stuff. I've got 5Ds but I don't have the time to play.
I think a lot of us like Dusty and others that are full time working pros gravitate toward cameras with great IQ and ergonomics and workflow.

If the 5D3 hack offered RAW and Pro Res, I'd never touch RAW anyway and always shoot Pro Res.
Commercial work is both art and money and you make a lot more money buy turning around more projects.

For instance I've got a BMPC on order and look forward to shooting it when it arrives, but aside from curiosity I have no qualms whether is ships with RAW or not - I'm just amazed at that nice of an image shot directly to the best format that we edit with.
And I'm a pretty experienced colorist and shoot all our photography RAW.
 
I think it depends on what kind of "pro" work you do. Raw is not that bad to handle and the upside of raw on this camera is incredible. I do music video work (99 percent of my income) so raw for me is all I ever want to shoot for them. My workflow is simple too. Shoot raw (CDNG)------> dump to raid------> edit raw (CDNG) in resolve-------->grade in resolve-------> deliver PRORESHQ to client. done. The only time info changes clothes is at the end of the party. done with a 2009 mac pro- 8TB internal software raid/ 16gb ram/ gtx 570 w/2.5 gb ram. back up raw files to cheap sata drives via esata card- rock solid.
 
oh and now that there is a CDNG conveter for MLraw im rejoicing. if im shooting 5dIII would add a step in my workflow. shoot MLraw-------> transcode to (CDNG) with RAWmagic------>dump to raid------> edit raw (CDNG) in resolve-------->grade in resolve-------> deliver PRORESHQ to client.
 
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