Low-mid budget Run and Gun cameras in 2021? Sony Fs3?

alaskacameradude said:
Cheap lenses? I got a Tamron 28-75 F2.8 for
$650. ..
70-180 F2.8 is $900. Sigma Emount lenses are also
‘fairly’ inexpensive. .. old FD lenses on


Using my lens on a smaller camera and not having
space behind the lens for ND? I’m lost. Is this
something EF lenses do? I’ve never used a behind
the lens ND.

..I have read that it can have
some strange issues if you add filters on the front
of a lens and combine them with the internal ND.
Of course I have also read that the C200 has an odd
greenish tint that can result with strong internal ND
applied as well.....
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Sir

Be clear Im partly leg pulling but also not.

Handle - I have a movi pro - you have to take the handle off.

The cost of AF lenses I have a superstition that AF is best with native lenses. My observation is that native af sony lenses are not cheap being too new to be widely available used. Ive not really checked non native lenses.

Two things.. Ive had enough sigmas fall apart to not like them.. Ive had great experience from modern tamron and that old 11-16. As I said probably superstition cuased by my impression of Stigma burned into me in 1998 (literally)

Costwise a biggie is 70-200 you can get the canon F4 for $400 wheras its abour $1500 for the sony 70-200.

Behind the lens ND.

So if you want to shoot with an A7xx or a Canon R you will need ND. EF lenses and Canon R cameras have space for this https://store.canon.co.uk/canon-dro...r-with-drop-in-variable-nd-filter-a/3443C005/

I think that is a pretty big deal on the small mirrorless cam front.


I hate using bolt on ND which are usually covered in peanut butter from my sandwhich bag or fluff from my pocket.

As for the third filter.. I do car shooting and often polarize to see through glass. Im not convinced (or unconvinced) that the Sony ND plays well with this. Its just my superstition.

Superstion or experience? Probably six of one, half a dozen of the other.

The cost is also not nothing to me after the last bum year.. C200 + used 70-200 is thousands cheaper than a SonyFX6.

Once again. I think the FX6, 28-135 is a very nice package for doc. My work is a little different from straight doc. Money no object..? I would have an FX6 in my cupboard of course.
 
If the FX6 had an audio input on the body, Sam (Morgan) would have bought one. End of!

There are lots of great and affordable E-mount options. Sigma, Tamron, Samyang, to name a few. I'm sure Sigma has improved their build quality since 1998 :) (or "have improved" if you go in for pluralizing singular subjects)
 
JPNola said:
Narrative is slow to adopt because of focus changes that happen on narrative cues. For instance, the camera racks focus from actor to car keys in foreground when the actors finishes asking “where are my keys??”. Or camera racks from car explosion in the distance to maniacal face of actor at close distance and does so two beats after the car explodes. AF cannot yet serve where focus is used to tell a story.
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Yes, but surely this type of programming is trivial for computers these days. I'm pretty sure that the manufacturers are withholding this to sell us future cameras (or perhaps because there isn't enough interest from the big-time narrative folks yet).

But seriously, considering what you can get computers to do these days, how hard would it be to program in a series of objects to track and accompanying speeds of the focus pull? It'd be frigging trivial. And then you could practically do away with having 2 ACs (sorry!) which would be impactful on low-budget stuff. On big-budget stuff, it just becomes a supplemental tool.
 
morgan_moore said:
Alipert dont have any jealousy your A7s probably looks as good.
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It's not the rigs that give me the envy (or I would have said "camera envy"), it's the scenework, the lighting design, and the whole making movies/drama bit, since I don't do much of that since quitting ACing years back and becoming more of a videographer/owner-op to chase higher pay and shorter hours/less travel/more home time.

here is my arrogance.. most producers were not shooting (or born) in the 1980s, they have no idea of a good camera because they have not served the time yet, they just pick cr_ap based on a couple of YT vids they watched.
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I'm not sure this is entirely true. Most of the producers I've met who have a strong opinion one way or the other about gear either got burned by it in post-production (let's say, not being able to pull a clean key) or had a good experience with something and just want to replicate that. Going off of YT or something someone told them and they got excited about usually only happens once if they end up losing money in post.
 
ahalpert said:
If the FX6 had an audio input on the body, Sam (Morgan) would have bought one. End of!
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How far from the truth is that? Im not sure. I still like the ability for the glass to go on a 'DSLR' and have a behind the lens ND.. that is a major canon win. Everything thing else is probably very marginal. They are all great cameras.
 
"For instance, the camera racks focus from actor to car keys in foreground..."
I'm pretty sure you could programme focus pulls on the Canon XL-H1 back in ancient times. Unless that was a dream.
 
Its on the EX1 too.

I have half a mind to get the canon SDK and see what can be done. Its one of the things about the C200.. the ethernet port .. which is not on the C70.

I like wires.
 
morgan_moore said:
How far from the truth is that? Im not sure. I still like the ability for the glass to go on a 'DSLR' and have a behind the lens ND.. that is a major canon win. Everything thing else is probably very marginal. They are all great cameras.
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Hmm I feel like this was a specific wall you came up against in discussions, considering that you couldn't lose the top handle to go on the Movi and keep an audio input. But it's all just interpretation on my part.

Behind the lens ND? If you get a mirrorless camera as well you mean? Hard to do better than the FX6 eND.

But yes, I agree that E mount goes on nothing but E mount. But there are very good E mount stills cameras, including the A7III which you can get for $1500 new now, less used. Or the A1 if you want to get serious.

As for programming focus pulls - even the GH cameras can do that. I'm talking about programming a sequence of specific objects or people to focus on, including variable transition speeds, and possibly even automated timing based on dialogue cues, and all with a more user-friendly interface than what's available on the GH camera. It's not a matter of feasibility IMO, only a matter of putting in the engineering work. And how lovely would that be.

Or, in a b-roll situation, you just talk to your camera like you would to your AC. "Rack focus to guy in the background at full speed...NOW!"
 
morgan_moore said:
The cost of AF lenses I have a superstition that AF is best with native lenses. My observation is that native af sony lenses are not cheap being too new to be widely available used. Ive not really checked non native lenses.
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Third-party E-mount lenses are native, though. They’re not reverse-engineered hacks like the third-party lenses for EF-mount and F-mount. They work well and can be expected to work with future cameras and camera firmware updates.

Sony gives out the protocol specs in exchange for a non-disclosure signature (after a vetting process to make sure you’re serious). The high-quality third-party autofocus lenses are a major part of the appeal of E-mount.
 
ahalpert said:
Hmm I feel like this was a specific wall you came up against in discussions, considering that you couldn't lose the top handle to go on the Movi and keep an audio input. But it's all just interpretation on my part.

Behind the lens ND? If you get a mirrorless camera as well you mean? Hard to do better than the FX6 eND.
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I did feel the audio is just so embarrasing but I also feel that fundamentally if you are over time gonna buy some AF glass .. like 10+ lenses over time that it better spent in the Canon camp. Althoug the cancellation of a bunch of EF right now throws that up in the air.

I see (or try to) very long term and my choice is probably till I retire*. I have for example a (broken) 600F4 nikkor that was discontinued in 1996 and you can no longer get parts. Im thinking no parts for a 1996 lens is a bad thing. But yep that lens cost the price of a cheap car.. so I have a right to feel it?


I am superstitous about Sony and Panicsonic. The cheap cams (nex5 and GH4) that I have from those brands just put me off. Those cameras are just so sh_itt. My GH4 record button lights up a week after I went on holiday. It runs on Windoze 96. Canon and Nikon seem to have this thing where you hit the record button and something happens today not tomorrow. Sony and Panny less so. I mean the iris wheel on the FS7? are you serious? Its as responsive a Trabant on an F1 track. Maybe this is not true for modern Sony but it is a continuing embarrasement and they pay the price of having put me off.


Behind the lens ND? If you get a mirrorless camera as well you mean? Hard to do better than the FX6 eND.


Yep im gonna get rid of my Z6 and get a canon R (5,6 RP whatever) as a second camera. Having that behind the lens ND option will be great.


Lift it to another level that is not even hit by even the 'video centric' sony FX3

(Sony being totlal fuc_ktards again with the design of that camera!)


I want a 'DSLR' size cam to take to the shops/park/riot and also vlog with!

*Ive used nikkor glass since 1988 or something - this is my first change.
 
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ahalpert said:
I'm not sure this is entirely true. Most of the producers I've met who have a strong opinion one way or the other about gear either got burned by it in post-production
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Stacks of producers seem happy to deal with oodles of out of focus FS7 footage .. simple broadcast it.
 
morgan_moore said:
I am superstitous about Sony and Panicsonic. The cheap cams (nex5 and GH4) that I have from those brands just put me off. Those cameras are just so sh_itt. My GH4 record button lights up a week after I went on holiday. It runs on Windoze 96. Canon and Nikon seem to have this thing where you hit the record button and something happens today not tomorrow. Sony and Panny less so. I mean the iris wheel on the FS7? are you serious? Its as responsive a Trabant on an F1 track. Maybe this is not true for modern Sony but it is a continuing embarrasement and they pay the price of having put me off.
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This is not the fight I wanted to pick, but can you really complain about crappery with what Canon does to its DSLR/mirrorless cameras for video? The severe cropping? The DPAF not functioning at all settings? Even on the R5, you can't record 10-bit unless you're recording log (or something, can't remember). That's to say nothing of the overheating situation. You're damn right - I am happy with my A7SIII! I usually manage to avoid getting peanut butter on my vari-ND but I keep lens tissues handy just in case.

Lenses - yes. Here is where I would have saved some money had I bought an R5 instead of an A7SIII (although some people favor RF glass over EF glass, so it may have been a moot point. Though that would also moot speedboosterability or behind-the-lens ND).

I outfitted myself with:

sony 12-24 f/4: $1210
sony 28-135: $1350
Sigma 24-70: $990
Tamron 70-180: $705
Samyang 35 1.4: $440
Samyang 85 1.4: $520

TOTAL: $5215

This is probably all I need? Certainly a functional set.
 
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Mate Im sure you are right. My only experience of Canon is the 5d2 - it was excellent and way more responsive than my EX1 or Gh4 or Nex5n or FS7.

Yes the spec was limited but it did shoot when you pressed the button.

Worse comes to worse I can jsut buy another one of those for $4.50. Im not sure what my 2nd canon will be.. it might even be M50 for $12.99.

(basically i only want DPAF face recognition - no other spec matters!)

Your lenses look great if they work (and Im not saying they dont)

Im looking to buy 15-85 60mm marcro 70-200 f4 and 50 1.8 - its a bit of a sorry set really !

I think it will cost me $1500 in total :)
 
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Peanut butter.

Its about getting the 3 stop off your 24-70 an onto your 70-200
So Ive got two filters 3 and 6 stop. 77mm in diameter (expensive B+W) , lens caps 77 in diameter, and two nikkors (24-70 and 70-200) for walkabout at 72 or 67mm diameter the lenses both have step up rings. Now what happens is you try and undo the filter but the step ring comes too. Then you have exposed your front element and dont have a 72 lens cap (you have 77 lens caps) and if you want to put that ND on the other lens you cant.. because its got the step ring jammed on the back. Then you put all of this mess into your sandwhich bag and just shoot at 1/1000 which makes for total juddervision :)

My observation is that the lee filter (4x4) system is probably the least bad option for these cameras.

Ive got a TLS Raven and 4.4 fancy filters but theve been in the cupboard for a decade since I bought them for my FS100.
 
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morgan_moore said:
Peanut butter.

Its about getting the 3 stop off your 24-70 an onto your 70-200
So Ive got two filters 3 and 6 stop. 77mm in diameter (expensive B+W) , lens caps 77 in diameter, and two nikkors (24-70 and 70-200) for walkabout at 72 or 67mm diameter the lenses both have step up rings. Now what happens is you try and undo the filter but the step ring comes too. Then you have exposed your front element and dont have a 72 lens cap (you have 77 lens caps) and if you want to put that ND on the other lens you cant.. because its got the step ring jammed on the back. Then you put all of this mess into your sandwhich bag and just shoot at 1/1000 which makes for total juddervision :)

My observation is that the lee filter (4x4) system is probably the least bad option for these cameras.

Ive got a TLS Raven and 4.4 fancy filters but theve been in the cupboard for a decade since I bought them for my FS100.
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This above post is why I don’t shoot video on mirrorless.
It makes my head hurt just reading it.
 
Regarding using EF lenses on a EF to R adapter
so you can use a behind the lens ND (nifty little
gadget that!) I would be superstitious
that this would affect the autofocus in some way.
Give you far less coverage over the frame or such.
 
alaskacameradude said:
Regarding using EF lenses on a EF to R adapter
so you can use a behind the lens ND (nifty little
gadget that!) I would be superstitious
that this would affect the autofocus in some way.
Give you far less coverage over the frame or such.
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Mybe so. Honestly Id take MF and ND over no ND and AF.. which brings one neatly onto the topic of the BMP 6k pro... Maybe that is the B camera. Its Canon mount after all.
 
I think there's an issue with linear polarizers affecting AF but not circular polarizers. Something like that. Your ND adapter is just 2 polarizers, no?
 
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