Simon Shasha
Well-known member
You are, Simon, you are... : D
Haha. Perhaps.
Regardless, I think they're all pretty terrible :tongue:
Low Light/High ISO: A7RII vs. A7S
- Thread starter lbigdogg
- Start date
Haha. Perhaps.
Regardless, I think they're all pretty terrible :tongue:
Oh man. I was thinking of finally dropping the FS700 for something smaller with the A7RII. But that rolling shutter test above completely ruins it for me, i have to say. Really bad rolling shutter. I guess i wouldn't just shake the camera around like that in the real world, but still...
paulcurtis
Veteran
I know this isn't ideal but if you have the time to post process the footage then you can remove a lot of the rolling shutter artefacts. I'll try and post a video later showing that side by side. My delivery is HD, so record at UHD, denoise, treat rolling shutter, downsize and that's the best you're going to get out of these cameras.
My FS700 shooting RAW is still a lot better (better colour, better resolution) but then the form factor of the A7s is really handy in some cases.
One huge advantage that the a7rII has is the IBIS. If you just hand hold the A7s then those little micro movements our muscles make can translate into jello style rolling shutter which is awful. You can see in the newshooter footage the first example just before he pans there's a jitter/jello on the left hand side. The IBIS will remove most of these meaning that just normal handheld shots are infinitely better than they are on the A7s.
Maybe the focus of the A7sII (please let there be one!) is rolling shutter and IBIS improvements. If on the A7rII they can process that huge megapixel sensor in the same time the A7s processes it's 4K one then that same processing hardware should do a better job next time round...
cheers
Paul
My FS700 shooting RAW is still a lot better (better colour, better resolution) but then the form factor of the A7s is really handy in some cases.
One huge advantage that the a7rII has is the IBIS. If you just hand hold the A7s then those little micro movements our muscles make can translate into jello style rolling shutter which is awful. You can see in the newshooter footage the first example just before he pans there's a jitter/jello on the left hand side. The IBIS will remove most of these meaning that just normal handheld shots are infinitely better than they are on the A7s.
Maybe the focus of the A7sII (please let there be one!) is rolling shutter and IBIS improvements. If on the A7rII they can process that huge megapixel sensor in the same time the A7s processes it's 4K one then that same processing hardware should do a better job next time round...
cheers
Paul
goodgoings
Well-known member
As more footage of the a7RII comes, the less I get impressed with it. The IBIS is great and the small form factor that shoots 4K is awesome, but what else? For someone who shoots photos and some video maybe it's no brainer if lens and flash selection isn't a factor. With a7S prices coming down slowly to pave way for a refresh, an a7RII still costs twice as much. Also factor in a speedbooster for equaling out the a7S low-light advantage. External 4K recorder/monitors keep becoming more affordable and it looks like the a7RII might need one with the heat issue. I was hoping rolling-shutter would be improved over the a7S also. If Sony can fix the heat issue and improve the rolling-shutter on the a7SII, then maybe there is something to look out for.
$700 price difference between A7s and A7rII in the US (B&H).
As to jello, obviously, any type of movement requires the full frame, lower resolution setting. Add some post work - would like to see what Paul has - and it'll be reasonable. But, when you can control your subjects, s35 will give as good a pic as almost any camera out there ... but I'd also like to to see how it works with an external recorder and higher bit rate.
As to jello, obviously, any type of movement requires the full frame, lower resolution setting. Add some post work - would like to see what Paul has - and it'll be reasonable. But, when you can control your subjects, s35 will give as good a pic as almost any camera out there ... but I'd also like to to see how it works with an external recorder and higher bit rate.
nyvz
Veteran
Interesting, is it just me or does the A7RII look much noisier than the A7S at ISO3200 but then cleaner at ISO6400?
NeedCreative
Well-known member
No you're right. I suspect the 1600 is a "pulled" ISO. Like the 5D2 did. Some higher ISOs were cleaner.
Bottom line it seems this camera in S35 mode is virtually identical to A7S (in FF) when speed boosted. OR you can run one stop lower and crop your lens in pure S35 un-boosted mode (like with FE glass) - similar performance just cropped. OR you can run FF with FE glass if you need to shoot anything under, say, 3200 and really 1600 for 4K.
Many choices. And tradeoffs. You can get a better 4K image off the A7S in full frame with non-speedboosted native glass... but you gotta strap a recorder to it, and are limited to 12Mpix stills and no IS for non stabilized lenses.
You can get the same image as A7S with a FF look with the A7RII through ISO 25K, but you must run in S35 mode and add a speedbooster for the same FOV given the same lens (or crop your FF glass)... essentially a mini FS7. But you gain IBIS, far sharper/more crop-able stills, far better AF for stills, but also more limited recording time due to heat.
Overall the tradeoffs are minor because I'm used to lensing in S35 anyway. It's nice to have a killer stills camera and mini FS7 in one relatively small device. Well, aside from the overheating issue which can confine this camera to only occasional B roll shots and less you attach a recorder to it which will then allow you to record for an hour or more each take. I've tested this both ways now.
Last edited:
nyvz
Veteran
That's hardly a pointless test... Very practical since I would always use the A7RII in FF with a FF lens or in S35 with a speedbooster and the same FF lens with the ISO at a lower setting to compensate for the speedbooster. It is very helpful to compare the two modes in each camera that have the best image quality and consider the fact that the DOF increase and sensitivity loss can be compensated well using a speedbooster. Of course there are also some minor downsides to using a speedbooster but I've generally been quite happy with mine.
I would always use FF mode on my A7S because it provides the best image quality, but it's looking like S35 mode with a speedbooster may be the way to go.
I would always use FF mode on my A7S because it provides the best image quality, but it's looking like S35 mode with a speedbooster may be the way to go.
I see your point, I guess its the engineer in me that wants everything to be equal and even haha.