"Location sound 101 - This is how it is"
- Thread starter Jon Oskar
- Start date
bloodyjack
Member
I found that a pro balanced line is to hot for the micro tracker so here is the best way to interface a Pro line XLR output (+4) to the micro tracker. You need to make a cable that has a mono ¼” jack plug on one end and on the other end connect the tip to pin 2 of the XLR and the shield to pin 1 leave pin 3 empty. Basically what this does is send an unbalanced signal in to the micro tracker unbalanced Pro line feeding a balanced line input will be down 6 dB and the mono jack grounds the ring to shield and this is the perfect match. Now when the meters on the SD mix-pre go in the red you are clipping. I use mine for film work so I set the limiters to come on when the red leds light and now I can not overload and all my wav files are as loud as they can be.
what is it "going in to the red" ?
the unit clips in 22 dbu ( 6 dbu later then the last red )
the micro track clips 6-8 db before you hit the full scale ( with the pin 3 in the air)
i dont like use inputs which cant take all what my output can supply
to use limiters - only as a last resort
the unit clips in 22 dbu ( 6 dbu later then the last red )
the micro track clips 6-8 db before you hit the full scale ( with the pin 3 in the air)
i dont like use inputs which cant take all what my output can supply
to use limiters - only as a last resort
bloodyjack
Member
If you dont like to "use inputs which cant take all what my output can supply" then dont buy a microtrack it can not take the output of the mix-pre if you wanted to use your full output you would have to use attenuaters. Going in the red means the red leds light so its easy to keep the signal in the green and set your limiters at this point too. The limiters would only kick in if you had an unexpected peak anyway. I know because this is what I use for my audio rig and have tested the microtrack inputs.
Test LS#008 is with the -14 db cables as described by ExileOnTheMainStreet
TEST#008
Test LS#009 is with the unbalanced cable as described by bloodyjack
TEST#009
For both tests the levels on the mixer where left at 0 db and the 4 db limiter was "ON".
In test LS#008 the red light on the M- Audio newer came on, but in test LS#009 it blinked frequently.
Observation - when i put the reference tone on with the -14db cable the levels on the M-Audio where almost at max, with the unbalanced cable, they where maxed out and the red lights where on.
So i guess the moral of the story is that the -14 db cable lets you set the mixer at 0db without clipping the recorder, where the levels for the unbalanced cable ned to be set at -15 so they don't clip on the M- Audio recorder.
Which one is better? :huh: You tell me
TEST#008
Test LS#009 is with the unbalanced cable as described by bloodyjack
TEST#009
For both tests the levels on the mixer where left at 0 db and the 4 db limiter was "ON".
In test LS#008 the red light on the M- Audio newer came on, but in test LS#009 it blinked frequently.
Observation - when i put the reference tone on with the -14db cable the levels on the M-Audio where almost at max, with the unbalanced cable, they where maxed out and the red lights where on.
So i guess the moral of the story is that the -14 db cable lets you set the mixer at 0db without clipping the recorder, where the levels for the unbalanced cable ned to be set at -15 so they don't clip on the M- Audio recorder.
Which one is better? :huh: You tell me
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
You can either fix it in post or experiment with the bass cut that you have built into the Fp24... and you may also be getting some proximity effect if you're speaking close to the mics. The closer you get the more bass you'll get... ESPECIALLY with a 416 or Oktava. I find the Oktava to be less prone to fat warmth in closer proximity... but your mileage may vary since everyone's voice is different.
If you flip on the 160 low-cut on the left side of your Fp24 I guarantee you won't be bothered with extra warmth that you don't want. At first it may sound a little thin in comparison, but as soon as you get it in a mix it won't sound nearly as thin.
If you A/B back and forth between the 160 cut and either flat or 80 cut... then you'll hear a big change. It's mainly the bottom octave and chest resonation below that anyway... both of which are the things which proximity effect exploits.
If you flip on the 160 low-cut on the left side of your Fp24 I guarantee you won't be bothered with extra warmth that you don't want. At first it may sound a little thin in comparison, but as soon as you get it in a mix it won't sound nearly as thin.
If you A/B back and forth between the 160 cut and either flat or 80 cut... then you'll hear a big change. It's mainly the bottom octave and chest resonation below that anyway... both of which are the things which proximity effect exploits.
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
I leave the 80 cut on all the time... and I assumed that Jon would do that also... if he was running those flat then that would explain the extra warmth, but if he was running 80 cut and still thought it was too warm then what? Unless he can increase distance to the mic w/o adding room what is there besides the 160 to thin it out?
?
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
Test #8 sounds great... #9 is clipping pretty hard. I don't think that's the limiter of the Fp24 working... it sounds more like a hard clip in the MicroTrack.
So do you think #8 sounds too warm? I think it sounds great... of course I haven't spoken with you in person for a comparison. The 416 has a super-tight pattern and if it's pointing at your chest you'll get more warmth from chest resonance... experiment with that mic as if it's a laser-pointer. The character of your voice will change as you move it from pointing to the center of your chest to center of your face. You can feather the warmth in and out like this... but some voices can sound nasally if you point the mic right at the person's nose. As George said if you set up a boom be sure to set the mic ahead of the person so they don't lean forward of the pickup pattern... but you can still aim the mic high to reduce warmth.
So do you think #8 sounds too warm? I think it sounds great... of course I haven't spoken with you in person for a comparison. The 416 has a super-tight pattern and if it's pointing at your chest you'll get more warmth from chest resonance... experiment with that mic as if it's a laser-pointer. The character of your voice will change as you move it from pointing to the center of your chest to center of your face. You can feather the warmth in and out like this... but some voices can sound nasally if you point the mic right at the person's nose. As George said if you set up a boom be sure to set the mic ahead of the person so they don't lean forward of the pickup pattern... but you can still aim the mic high to reduce warmth.
bloodyjack
Member
Just reviewed file 008 and 009 I would say
008 is not quite loud enough but ok better than clipping and if you have spent the money on cables with pads then use this set up. My unbalanced cable was a cheap alternative
009 is totaly cliping maybe you did not understand the level settings using the cable I described, the led meters of the mix pre can not go in to the red or you will clip. The best thing to do is play a loud sound constantly in to your mics so that the meter is well in to the red and adjust the limiters so that the signal is just out of the red and now you can not clip.
you need to review your files in an audio editing program then you would see what I am talking about
008 is not quite loud enough but ok better than clipping and if you have spent the money on cables with pads then use this set up. My unbalanced cable was a cheap alternative
009 is totaly cliping maybe you did not understand the level settings using the cable I described, the led meters of the mix pre can not go in to the red or you will clip. The best thing to do is play a loud sound constantly in to your mics so that the meter is well in to the red and adjust the limiters so that the signal is just out of the red and now you can not clip.
you need to review your files in an audio editing program then you would see what I am talking about
I listened to test #008 again, maybe it was a wrong choice of words when i said it sounds unnatural, i guess hyper present would better describe it. That being said, it is also a shotgun being used indoor and from 1 1/2 - 2 feet and maybe this would be just what the doctor ordered if recording outside. I will try this again when my Octava gets here. Anyways this test was supposed to check the difference between the attenuated cable and the unbalanced one as described earlier in this thread.
bloodyjack
Test 001 - 007 are all done with the cable as based on your recommendation, test 008 and 009 show the difference between the two cables when feeding a 0db signal from the mixer to the M-Audio (the levels have bin set for the attenuated cable so they are not ideal for the unbalanced cable, which is why it is clipping)
The question that this test really addresses is weather it better to output a hotter signal (0db) and use attenuators between the mixer and recorder or is it better to feed a lover -15db signal straight from the mixer??? In both cases we are feeding the recorder a - 15 db signal, right???
On a side note, making the attenuation cable only cost me around 5$
bloodyjack
Test 001 - 007 are all done with the cable as based on your recommendation, test 008 and 009 show the difference between the two cables when feeding a 0db signal from the mixer to the M-Audio (the levels have bin set for the attenuated cable so they are not ideal for the unbalanced cable, which is why it is clipping)
The question that this test really addresses is weather it better to output a hotter signal (0db) and use attenuators between the mixer and recorder or is it better to feed a lover -15db signal straight from the mixer??? In both cases we are feeding the recorder a - 15 db signal, right???
On a side note, making the attenuation cable only cost me around 5$