7D Lens Help! Big purchase time.

K

Klinkenberger

New member
I’ve decided to purchase the 7D along with some accessories but I had a few clarifications to make before I make this semi-substantial purchase. Also, a few questions.

First, I want to make sure I’m right about the whole 7D lens situation. The 7D, due to the smaller sensor, will have a lens crop factor of 1.6X. Correct? The 1.6x crop factor is NOT present when using EF-S lenses. Correct?

What all I’m purchasing:
Canon 7D, two additional batteries, Redrock Field Cinema Bundle, Manfrotto tripod, Hoodman Loupe and Strap, 32GB high speed CF card, H4n Zoom recorder, XLRs, Audio Technica Shotgun mic, Boom pole and shock mount. I think that’s everything.

Now I need to choose Lenses. I want to save some money since I’m already spending a decent amount, so my initial thought was to get the two basic canon lenses to start. The 18mm-55mm lens and the 55mm-200mm lens. Now those are both EF-S lenses so if my previous statement of EF-S lenses not being prone to the crop-factor effect, then they would be fine. They’re pretty slow lenses but again, saving money and they’re just to get us started. If all that is correct, I wonder why people always say the 7D is bad for wide angle shots due to the crop factor; 18mm is pretty wide if you ask me. Yes a slow lens, but still wide if you need wide. Thoughts?

Now assume that is false and all lenses are subject to the 1.6X Crop, Now what lenses should I get? Is it worth getting non-Canon glass to save some cash? Sigma, Tamron, Tokina? Are there any brands to stay away from? I would also eventually need a macro lens for certain applications. Macro lenses can be used as standard lenses as well. Correct? If so, once I get in the $4-800 range, I might as well get a macro right? For the lenses, the cheaper the better, but I’d like a range of 18-200, or close to that. Long as we can mimic the primes 18mm (or 24), 35mm, 50mm, 80mm, and some telephoto capabilities.

I would also like the get a 50mm prime to have some low light abilities if needed. Do they make a EF-S 50mm or just the plain EF? If there is no EF-S 50mm or if the EF-S’s are also subject to Crop Factor, should I get the 35mm prime instead since that would actually get me closer to a real prime 50mm? (35 x 1.6 = 56mm)

EDIT: Darn; I just realized while typing this, to use the Follow Focus, I need to have lenses with stationary (or close to it) focus rings. Take this into consideration with your suggestions, Thanks so much in advance!)

Sorry for the long post! Hopefully people take the time to read everything! Also please try to be specific and answer as much as possible. I appreciate any help I can get and I really am grateful, but its somewhat annoying when someone just posts one thing like “Nahh they don’t make EF-S 50mm Primes” and that’s it. What about the crop factor? What about off brand lenses? What other options do I have? Recommendations? Haha sorry, don’t mean to nag; just happens to me a lot. Maybe I should make shorter posts!
(About 10 Questions/Clarifications)
 
Just read through those threads. Lot's of useful information! Thank you both. Some my conclusion is, to save some money, I could go with the two stock lenses:
18-55 f3.5
55-200
but the problem is, do they have non-moving focus rings?
So how about the
Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC Aspherical (IF) Lens for Canon
Is that junk? It's only $300
 
So what's the point of the EF-S lenses then?

Also: Found the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM Lens for Canon
Seems almost to Good to be true @ $450.
 
Also @ Davis:
Philip Bloom agrees with you in saying the 7D's sensor is just about the same size as a 35mm cinema sensor. But he doesn't say that the crop-factor is irrelevant
"suddenly you have longer lenses" he says at one point "So all your lovely wide lenses are no longer that wide"


@ vec
Bloom also later says
"So if you want wide for the 7d you really have to buy the Canon EF-S series of lenses which are optimised for the cropped sensor cameras like the 7d."
So i assume you we're just saying that in response you my - please leave a decent response comment.

I don't mean to argue with everyone. I really am just trying to understand and I would think Bloom is someone who would know a thing or two. I just wanted some more detail.




http://philipbloom.co.uk/2009/10/01/5dmkii-or-the-7d/
 
Klinkenberger said:
So what's the point of the EF-S lenses then?
Click to expand...

They are smaller and lighter than EF lenses but not by much. How small/light depends on model and manufacturer. Canon EF-S lenses seem to be not that much smaller IMO. They are also supposed to be cheaper to make although thats a hard metric to measure and I haven't noticed a huge savings.
 
Klinkenberger said:
I’ve decided to purchase the 7D along with some accessories but I had a few clarifications to make before I make this semi-substantial purchase. Also, a few questions.
Click to expand...

Ok.

First, I want to make sure I’m right about the whole 7D lens situation. The 7D, due to the smaller sensor, will have a lens crop factor of 1.6X. Correct?
Click to expand...

Correct.

The 1.6x crop factor is NOT present when using EF-S lenses. Correct?
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Crop factor is present with all lenses. A 50mm, regardless of brand, type, etc, will always be an 80mm 35mm full frame equivalent on the 7D. The differences are in how large an image circle the lens puts out, which affects whether or not it can cover a full frame sensor, but does not affect field of view in the part that is covered.

What all I’m purchasing:
Canon 7D, two additional batteries, Redrock Field Cinema Bundle, Manfrotto tripod, Hoodman Loupe and Strap, 32GB high speed CF card, H4n Zoom recorder, XLRs, Audio Technica Shotgun mic, Boom pole and shock mount. I think that’s everything.
Click to expand...
Sounds good. I would highly recommend you consider the Zacuto Z-Finder over the hoodman and find someway to make it work with the Redrock...it is much, much, much nicer. Seriously, there is no comparison. That extra money seems like a ton now but it won't...I promise.

Also I feel like that red rock rig is a little bit overkill..take a look at some of the rig threads here and design something you think you'll want to use and then order those parts. You'll probably save some money because I bet you'll be leaving half that rig in your bag more than half the time.

Also you will want to get more CF cards than just one. The camera fills up a 32gb card in about an hour and a half...I would recommend getting several smaller cards rather than one big one if you can't afford multiple big ones, as I think the way pricing works you might be able to afford more capacity that way, although I'm not sure.

Also I would add a Røde video mic or other inexpensive hotshoe mounted mic to the list. It will make it easier to sync with your camera's audio track if you can actually hear the cameras audio track. Not sure if you will be able to mount the mic with the redrock top handle in the way but you can figure it out.

Now I need to choose Lenses. I want to save some money since I’m already spending a decent amount, so my initial thought was to get the two basic canon lenses to start. The 18mm-55mm lens and the 55mm-200mm lens. Now those are both EF-S lenses so if my previous statement of EF-S lenses not being prone to the crop-factor effect, then they would be fine. They’re pretty slow lenses but again, saving money and they’re just to get us started. If all that is correct, I wonder why people always say the 7D is bad for wide angle shots due to the crop factor; 18mm is pretty wide if you ask me. Yes a slow lens, but still wide if you need wide. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

18mm is cropped to to 28.8mm on the 7D which is still a decent wide angle. If you're doing digital cinema which it sounds like you are, I would recommend investing in some fast primes. I feel like a 50mm f/1.4 and a 24mm f/1.8 are important. If money is a problem consider looking into a Nikon adapter and used Nikon manual lenses...there are a ton of them and they are much cheaper. The zooms aren't going to be of huge use to you because you can't really zoom well while recording, so you might as well get primes...faster, better optics, and cheaper.

Now assume that is false and all lenses are subject to the 1.6X Crop, Now what lenses should I get? Is it worth getting non-Canon glass to save some cash? Sigma, Tamron, Tokina? Are there any brands to stay away from? I would also eventually need a macro lens for certain applications. Macro lenses can be used as standard lenses as well. Correct? If so, once I get in the $4-800 range, I might as well get a macro right? For the lenses, the cheaper the better, but I’d like a range of 18-200, or close to that. Long as we can mimic the primes 18mm (or 24), 35mm, 50mm, 80mm, and some telephoto capabilities.

I would also like the get a 50mm prime to have some low light abilities if needed. Do they make a EF-S 50mm or just the plain EF? If there is no EF-S 50mm or if the EF-S’s are also subject to Crop Factor, should I get the 35mm prime instead since that would actually get me closer to a real prime 50mm? (35 x 1.6 = 56mm)

EDIT: Darn; I just realized while typing this, to use the Follow Focus, I need to have lenses with stationary (or close to it) focus rings. Take this into consideration with your suggestions, Thanks so much in advance!)
Click to expand...

They are all affected. I think you're getting too hung up on zooms...yes you should get primes see above.

I like Sigma just fine, although I use their lenses for Nikon, have never used them for Canon. I also think Nikon is a great brand to buy from for digital cinema on the Canon SLRs. You can get an adapter...see above.

Sorry for the long post! Hopefully people take the time to read everything! Also please try to be specific and answer as much as possible. I appreciate any help I can get and I really am grateful, but its somewhat annoying when someone just posts one thing like “Nahh they don’t make EF-S 50mm Primes” and that’s it. What about the crop factor? What about off brand lenses? What other options do I have? Recommendations? Haha sorry, don’t mean to nag; just happens to me a lot. Maybe I should make shorter posts!
Click to expand...

If you need more from me let me know! If I were you I wouldn't invest in EF-S primes because you might eventually want to move to a full frame or other camera years later and you want a collection of glass that will work with it.

(About 10 Questions/Clarifications)
 
The EF-S image circle (ie the circular image projected off the back to the sensor from the real lens element) will not cover a full frame sensor but it will cover the aps-c sensor in the 7d/t2i.

EF lens image circle will cover both.

When people talk 1.6 crop factor they are referring to full frame field of view which does not apply to movie making. Thats for stills photographer only.

Hollywood super35 film is equal to aps-c sensor so 1:1 ratio, ie zero crop factor.

If you are watching a behind the scenes DVD and someone says that shot was at 35mm they are NOT referring to full frame field of view.
They are referring to exactly the same field of view you get on your 7d/t2i. So forget all this 1.6 crop factor nonsense.
 
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About phillip blooms comment.

If you are coming from a still photographers background then yes, all your lenses will seem longer because
suddenly you are using a smaller sensor and you are used to a full frame sensor

But if a cinematographer says I like that shot at 35mm he is referring to an aps-c sized sensor
 
J Davis said:
The EF-S image circle (ie the circular image projected off the back of the sensor from the real lens element) will not cover a full frame sensor but it will cover the aps-c sensor in the 7d/t2i.

EF lens image circle will cover both.

When people talk 1.6 crop factor they are referring to full frame field of view which does not apply to movie making. Thats for stills photographer only.

Hollywood super35 film is equal to aps-c sensor so 1:1 ratio, ie zero crop factor.

If you are watching a behind the scenes DVD and someone says that shot was at 35mm they are NOT referring to full frame field of view.
They are referring to exactly the same field of view you get on your 7d/t2i. So forget all this 1.6 crop factor nonsense.
Click to expand...

Not quite true. 35mm motion picture film has a 1.3x crop factor vs 35mm full frame photography, and APS-C is a 1.6x crop factor.

Therefore when a cinematographer says they used a 50mm lens (a 65mm in full frame photography terms, after crop factor), you will need a 40.6mm lens to achieve the same field of view on your 7D, as if you use the same 50mm lens they used, you will get an 80mm 35mm full frame field of view. I think that math is right.

35mm motion picture film and APS-C sensors are not the same size, the APS-C sensor is smaller!
 
Yeah film...is larger...less crop factor.

It's true that motion picture film is not quite the same as 35mm full frame...it has a crop factor as well, but it is not the same crop factor as the 7D.
 
4441061913_eb28a73dfb_o.jpg


super 35 four perf film width 24.89mm

t2i
aps-c sensor width 22.3mm

7d
aps-c sensor width 22.3mm


with a 2.5mm difference I think its fairly safe to say its a 1:1 ratio
so for all intensive purposes we have zero relative crop factor to super 35

Just wish I got to have gorgeous A-list actors like the girl above in front of my vDSLR ! :)
 
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J Davis said:
4441061913_eb28a73dfb_o.jpg


super 35 four perf film width 24.89mm

t2i
aps-c sensor width 22.3mm

7d
aps-c sensor width 22.3mm


with a 2.5mm difference I think its fairly safe to say its a 1:1 ratio
so for all intensive purposes we have zero relative crop factor to super 35

Just wish I got to have gorgeous A-list actors like the girl above in front of my vDSLR ! :)
Click to expand...

I'm not making this up. 35mm motion picture film has a 1.3x crop factor. The 7D and t2i have 1.6x crop factors. The 1d Mk IV has a 1.3x crop factor. The 5D mk II is full frame.
 
Hi Ben, you're misinformed or your doing your math wrong.

Still Photography Film
Full Frame Still Film is 36mm x 24mm

Movies Film
Three Perf Academy 35mm is 22mm x 12mm
Four Perf Academy 35mm is 22mm x 16mm
Three Perf Super 35mm is 24.89mm x 14mm
Four Perf Super 35mm is 24.89 x 18.66mm

Digital Full Frame DSLR
36mm x 24mm

7d and t2i
22.3mm x 14.9mm
 
J David. GREAT explanation. I understand the 1.6x crop factor, but could not verbalize it as well as you did.

What I find so strange is people complaining about the 7D not being full frame and worrying about whether their APS-C lens investment will hold up.

As someone who comes from a motion picture / TV background, I WANT the 1.6 crop factor and see no reason to go full frame because my primary interest is video and motion.

That one of the main reason I got the 7D was for the Crop Factor.
 
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gene_can_sing said:
As someone who comes from a motion picture / TV background, I WANT the 1.6 crop factor and see no reason to go full frame because my primary interest is video and motion.
Click to expand...

Me too.

The problem with full frame is that in order to get the field of view you want you need to use a longer focal length which means dof gets narrower and actors start to drift out of focus more.
 
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