Lavs Lavs Lavs
- Thread starter NorBro
- Start date
Blocking out background is more about placement and proximity than the individual lav. The human torso absorbs and blocks quite a bit. Omnidirectional should still be the first choice, since anything else will pretty much guarantee off-axis dialog unless the talent’s head never moves.
Sanken COS-11D and Countryman B3 are still my go-tos. I do like DPAs - they sound great - but they’re much pricier and much more fragile. I’m not much for the idea of spending $600-700 on something that’s essentially an expendable. I still may grab a couple for corporate work, but anywhere that talent may be moving quite a bit and could put the lav at risk, I’ll go to my usual daily driviers.
Sanken COS-11D and Countryman B3 are still my go-tos. I do like DPAs - they sound great - but they’re much pricier and much more fragile. I’m not much for the idea of spending $600-700 on something that’s essentially an expendable. I still may grab a couple for corporate work, but anywhere that talent may be moving quite a bit and could put the lav at risk, I’ll go to my usual daily driviers.
NorBro
Major Contributor
Thanks, Alex. Did you ever see a video back in the day, maybe like 10 years ago, of a guy standing by a river or stream and using a lav to record his dialogue?
I can't remember which lavs those were (something tells me Tram but not sure), but the audio was really clean.
Compared to other sources he also shared the difference was remarkable. He was standing right over it so proximity wasn't going to get any worse unless he jumped into the water, but perhaps his body might have blocked some of the sound.
I can't remember which lavs those were (something tells me Tram but not sure), but the audio was really clean.
Compared to other sources he also shared the difference was remarkable. He was standing right over it so proximity wasn't going to get any worse unless he jumped into the water, but perhaps his body might have blocked some of the sound.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
Alex is, as usual, spot on. Though I will say that DPA now has some less fragile lavs, the 4660, but they're still like $550+. I have one DPA (4071), might/should buy one or two more. They sound great but geez they're expensive. So I to lean on Sanken COS-11 and Countryman (B3, B6, and still EMW).
As for blocking out sound, I don't think of TRAMs as being special in that regard, though I haven't owned TRAMs in a dozen years or so (they were fine, but I didn't replace the ones I had when they were retired). You could maybe look at a directional lave like the Countryman B2D or something. I've seen (well, heard) them used (though not by me). Impressive but of course susceptible to head turns, need careful placement, and they cost like $600. Yow!
When I'm trying to reduce the background noise a lav picks up, I try to get the mic taped to the talent's chest or bra, or at least under clothes. And a bit higher than I would usually. I'll usually use a mic with a peaked response/cap. And we'll try to have them not face the noise source (duh). And then we'll spend some time in post to maybe reduce some more noise, and improve the EQ. Or we'll roll with what we got. Depends, you know, on time and budget. So all stuff you know.
NorBro, if you find that video and find out what that guy was using and doing, let us know!
As for blocking out sound, I don't think of TRAMs as being special in that regard, though I haven't owned TRAMs in a dozen years or so (they were fine, but I didn't replace the ones I had when they were retired). You could maybe look at a directional lave like the Countryman B2D or something. I've seen (well, heard) them used (though not by me). Impressive but of course susceptible to head turns, need careful placement, and they cost like $600. Yow!
When I'm trying to reduce the background noise a lav picks up, I try to get the mic taped to the talent's chest or bra, or at least under clothes. And a bit higher than I would usually. I'll usually use a mic with a peaked response/cap. And we'll try to have them not face the noise source (duh). And then we'll spend some time in post to maybe reduce some more noise, and improve the EQ. Or we'll roll with what we got. Depends, you know, on time and budget. So all stuff you know.
NorBro, if you find that video and find out what that guy was using and doing, let us know!
The B6 is never my first choice. It’s a good mic for what it is… a specialty mic for hiding in plain sight or dealing with similar burying challenges. Even the B3 has a better sound to it.
The COS-11D is tried and true. As I mentioned, that and the B3 are my primary lavs (I really like the B3 for situations where excessive sweat/moisture around the capsule is likely). They sound very different from one another, but either would be more versatile than the B6.
You can hear them both in the video below. The host, Stacia, is on a COS-11D. Rachael arrived later, wearing a white shirt that would have shown the black cable, so I went with a B3 as I have them in white. Both lavs were feeding Lectrosonics SMDWB transmitters.
Not the best environment in that warehouse, but it cleaned up rather nicely.
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Yep. Part of that may be placement, but the B3 definitely has a little more midrange to it and the COS-11D is a little more crisp.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
B6 is a problem solver. It doesn't sound as good, imo, as some other mics. But it's handy when you need something really small and fairly easy to rig, and I capture a decent track with a B6, post can make it work. But day in day out, I'd say the COS-11 will be more useful. It's also still commonly used so its "sound" is something clients and audiences are used to.
OTOH, the B3 can cost ~$130 less than the COS-11 (if you buy the accessory mount pack for each), so you could perhaps afford two B3s...in different colors...and always have a backup.
We used Tram TR-50s in live broadcast studio. We'd have talent talking and we'd all be talking off-camera all the time with no issues. Now, this wasn't a quiet film with dialog, but I was always impressed at how well the TR-50s pretty much ignored the rest of the room. TR-50s seem to have gone out of style. I perceive a certain trendiness in microphones much like there is in anything else. COS-11Ds are very much the microphone du jour, I don't understand why they are so long. I wish they were half their length. I have both. I don't prefer one over the other for any particular reason.
berniebeaudry
Well-known member
The contrast between the two mics is easy to hear. Was the B-3 eq'd at all to try and match the Sanken?
I didn’t do post on that one, so I’m not entirely sure.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Chiming in a little late…. Sanken COS-11’s are my go-to’s. I have about eight. And even though they are rarely used anymore, I have about six Tram’s (always used to carry a Sanken and Tram for each belt pack). I always thought they did a pretty good job in noisy environments. I also have a few Sony ECM-77’s, which could arguably be called the COS-11’s of their day, because they performed well and that’s what everyone used. And let’s not forget the Countryman B6’s. I have a pair and bought them more or less for when you need to hide a lav in plain sight(but maybe not exactly). Haven’t tried any DPA’s, yet, but have heard good things.
Oh man, Rick I had a Sony ECM-55 when I first started out. That thing was huge. Looked like a solid black bumblebee on someone’s shirt, tie, jacket, etc. Didn’t Sony have one that was even worse(bigger)? A 44 or 66 something like that.
Oh man, Rick I had a Sony ECM-55 when I first started out. That thing was huge. Looked like a solid black bumblebee on someone’s shirt, tie, jacket, etc. Didn’t Sony have one that was even worse(bigger)? A 44 or 66 something like that.
cyvideo
Veteran
+1. I would agree with that but as you say they are HUGE... and very silver, at least mine are. The 55B was black. I still have two of them and they get a run sometimes and each time I think "Hmm! These were good and still are for strong isolation." They are performing as well now as when they were new. But if it's a noisy clothing challenge on moving talent I still fall back on my now aging ECM-88s. Never really popular for some reason. Though I do know some ops who didn't even know they existed. They have got me out of some difficult situations so they are always in the kit. Odd though they seem to be a bit susceptible to strongish wind noise.
Chris Young
I've posted this before so forgive me for repetition but I think some may be interested.
Jim Feeley
Veteran
I remember working with some archival news footage and seeing something like this:
And in the Ken Burns history of lavaliere microphones, scheduled to run on PBS next year over eight consecutive nights, we will see this image in the second episode:
So we should probably stop complaining about how hard it is to hide our modern (and our aging) lavs. ;-)
And in the Ken Burns history of lavaliere microphones, scheduled to run on PBS next year over eight consecutive nights, we will see this image in the second episode:
So we should probably stop complaining about how hard it is to hide our modern (and our aging) lavs. ;-)
cpreston
Veteran
I've been using DPA 4060 for awhile as my main mic. I also have everything else that has been mentioned other than the Cos-11. I had too much issue with cable noise on my Cos-11s to stick with them. I like the DPA because of the sound, the microdot connector for different transmitters, and the concealers.
DPA now has the Core series that includes the smaller 6060. I haven't used them, but I imagine they would be a nice step up from an already very good mic.
DPA now has the Core series that includes the smaller 6060. I haven't used them, but I imagine they would be a nice step up from an already very good mic.