Kinefinity new cameras

NorBro said:
DLD - I knew you'd like a little sensor talk, lol
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Honestly, the Image Sensor World discussions go over my head. I retain bits and pieces.

The report on the BSI caught my attention because I'd stated previously that GH5 would have to really up both the performance and its feature set to be competitive with A6300, which will always have an advantage of a larger size. So, in this case, it's nice to see that Panasonic is in the game with, at least, some of the latest tech.

The sensor market is obviously more cutthroat than the photo-video camera one because it's cross-national, whereas the Japan based conglomerates control everything until it gets up to the ultra high end.
 
Yeah 1.29 W RMB converted to USD is $2K

(though if you mean the KiniMINI 4K, then that converts to US$3.4K, so close enough. But as we were discussing a S35 BMPCC, it seems more appropriate to refer to the KiniMINI than the KiniMINI 4K)
 
That means the Terra 5K is under $5K. That's the one with the 4.6K sensor, right?
If these cameras are ready to ship, this little Chinese company just handed BlackMagic their arse on a silver plate. It seems they need a better sales channel, though.
 
IronFilm said:
Yeah 1.29 W RMB converted to USD is $2K

(though if you mean the KiniMINI 4K, then that converts to US$3.4K, so close enough. But as we were discussing a S35 BMPCC, it seems more appropriate to refer to the KiniMINI than the KiniMINI 4K)
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Well my original quote said 4K, so yea, I mean 4K, haha.

But KineMINI and KineMINI 4K are both the same camera....the 4K just has the paid upgrade for 4K. The new cameras are 5K and 6K.

The price goes up as resolution is increased.
 
Samuel H said:
That means the Terra 5K is under $5K. That's the one with the 4.6K sensor, right?
If these cameras are ready to ship, this little Chinese company just handed BlackMagic their arse on a silver plate. It seems they need a better sales channel, though.
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Errr.... it is a 5K sensor, not a 4.6K sensor. Don't think we have any reason to believe it is the same (or very similar) sensor as in the URSA Mini 4.6K?

And I agree that a proper distribution network is what is really holding KineFinity back in the western world.

If could but a Terra 6K for the same price and as easily as I can buy an URSA Mini 4.6K then I'd go for the KineFinity camera instead.
 
It's good for marketing if Blackmagic says the sensor is not off the shelf. But even Nikon and other bigger companies don't make their own sensors and use sensors of other cameras. So I doubt the 4.6K is not off the shelf. There may be some customization but if any is probably minimal, if at all. Probably just color science tweaks at software level. Problem is anybody who would know for sure is not allowed to say anything bu what Blackmagic says. We are at a point where anybody can build a camera. One more reason to appreciate well designed and purpose built beasts such as Alexa, F65, F35 etc.
 
I believe the customization that BM did is centered on the color filter array. In any case, the Fairchild 4.6K sensor with 15 stops of DR and fast frame rates is definitely off-the-shelf.

@Ironfilm: I thought the 5K was using the 4.6K because 4.6 is close enough to 5 and everything else seems to match the specs of that Fairchild sensor, and there was talk about it earlier on the thread. I'm just assuming, though.
 
This conversation has kind of split, but to summarize:

(1) There is a 99% chance Blackmagic is using an off-the-shelf sensor (that they have customized) for the URSA Mini 4.6K.

(2) I don't think anyone knows for sure which sensors the Kinefinity cameras are using.

We should know more in the following weeks.
 
Samuel H said:
I believe the customization that BM did is centered on the color filter array. In any case, the Fairchild 4.6K sensor with 15 stops of DR and fast frame rates is definitely off-the-shelf.

@Ironfilm: I thought the 5K was using the 4.6K because 4.6 is close enough to 5 and everything else seems to match the specs of that Fairchild sensor, and there was talk about it earlier on the thread. I'm just assuming, though.
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The LTN4625A's rated dynamic range is not quite 15 stops, even theoretically -- its 88-dB spec translates to 14⅔ stops. Why am I being so persnickety about a third of a stop? Well, in the past, for the BMCC and the Pocket, BMD always listed a conservative, more realistic 13-stop rating, despite the approximately 14-stop theoretical DR of the CIS2051/CIS2521 (BMCC) and the 14- to 15-stop ratings of the various flavors of the 1910 (one of which is the likely sensor in the Pocket). Unless BMD have changed their philosophy, it seems unlikely that they would overstate (even by one-third stop) the DR of the Mini 4.6K's sensor. While it is true that the CMV12000 in the 4K Production camera and the 4K Mini underperformed -- in most tests it was under 10 stops vs. the rated 12 stops -- I attribute BMD's decision to rate it at 12 stops to their tweaking one of its HDR modes to yield up to 12 stops in preproduction testing. With respect to the 4.6K sensor, at first I thought they were using the off-the-shelf LTN4625A, but now I believe that the sensor is a custom-tweaked version. It would seem to be a philosophical change if they're now just quoting the theoretical DR rather a figure derived from real-world testing.
 
NorBro said:
This conversation has kind of split, but to summarize:

(1) There is a 99% chance Blackmagic is using an off-the-shelf sensor (that they have customized) for the URSA Mini 4.6K
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But who put that sensor on the shelf? BMD!
And can anybody else pluck that exact sensor from the shelf to use it in their own camera today? Nope!
 
I wonder if anyone has the rights to use that sensor.

Supposedly (again), AJA's Cion is using the same sensor that's used in the BMPC and 4K Mini.

Of course a company would not use the customized 4.6K sensor, but maybe they can use the original and customize it themselves.
 
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