Keep the GH2 or get a 60D

R

Roman707

Member
I posted this question in the GH1/GH2 forum, but now I would like to get the opinion of Canon users.

After a year of waiting for the announcement of the GH2, I finally got my hands on one. During the wait, I have tried the following cams (GH1, GF1, NEX3, d7000). I must say the video on the GH2 is excellent. There are no issues with it at all. I really like the ex telle conversion feature, and the low light video shots with the 20mm are great. Also, I am using a Nikkor 35mm 1.8 DX and a Cannon 50mm 1.4 FD. Once again, video is great. I am using a shoulder rig for stabalization and manual focusing actually went surprisingly well. 20mm autofucusing during video was very unreliable as expected.


The reason I am considering getting something else like the 60D is for a couple of reasons. I know the GH2 is a better video camera, I have read this all over and I can see for myself. However, I am not too impressed with the photo capabiliteis. I am a noob to photo and video (first DSLR purchase), so part of this is due to my lack of skill. But I havent been able to get any really good images out of this camera. I am looking for somehting close to a FF camera like the 5DMarkII. The GH2 seems to lack sufficient dreamy depth of field. I had a buddy let me borrow his full frame Sony dslr and I took a few snaps of my daughter, all I can say is that I was blown away.

I know I cant get that with the GH2, but I was hoping one of my lenses would be able to come close. No cigar, not even close. The crop factor of the GH2 is 2X, with the 60D being at 1.6X, I am hoping to get better shallow depth of field with the 60D.

If I keep the GH2 I will purchase the Voigtlander 25mm 0.95 which will give me excellent low light video and depth of field, but it is manual focus (in my experience so far, great for video, not so great for photography). So my dilemma is, do I keep the GH2, or sell it and move on to something like the 60D.

I understand the GH2 is a better video camera, but I am a casual user and I will use my camera for video and pictures 50-50. I want to be able to take great pictures and shoot great video, and I can live with the limitations that dslr's bring to video. But if the GH2 is way better for video, and the 60D is not that much better for photography, I think I will keep the GH2.

Please help me decide. Are there fast lenses for the 60D with autofucus that will give me the dreamy depth of field in photos that I am looking for, and also give me good manual focus video? Does the 60D have the ability to shoot great videos for a casual user, I am not trying to make cinema quality movies!
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Again, if the tool you currently have doesn't do what you need it to, get the one that does.

But to think that getting a new camera will instantly make your photos come out better is just wrong. The GH2 is entirely capable of delivering great stills. Yes other cameras can make better ones, but if you say yourself you are a "photo noob" I would first spend more time learning the camera before just jumping ship.
 
Yeah i think deffo sticking around with the gh2 and learning it a bit more should look after your needs a little better! The thing is - these cameras out there in the market - will still be there whether or not you decide to sell the gh2. So don't be in a rush - if you do eventually want to sell you can always pm me as i know chaps that would love to have one :)

Good luck and keep practicising!
 
Sounds good, I will not be selling my gh2 anytime soon for sure, will spend time with it and try to learn/practice as much as possible. I guess I just want to know if another system would be a better long term investment.

M43's does not have the lens choices available that I wish they did. A fast zoom and the 25mm 1.4 would be great, but even still would this be a great long term investment? Is M43's really here for the long term? I have no problem spending the dough, even being a noob and casual user, but I want to make sure I spend my money properly.

I guess I am just picky, but what if Canon comes out with equal or better video in another body in the future, from what I have read, investment in lenses is what is most important.
 
Somewhere I saw a comparison of the noise tests of the Canon 60D, Canon 50D, Nikon D7000, and Panasonic GH2, but now I can't find them... :( Of them all (for photography) the 60D and D7000 were the best for noise control/accurate colour reproduction, with the 50D close behind most times, and the GH2 suffering with washed out and muddy colours. Video on the GH2 is terrific, but since I'm a hybrid user as well, the photo quality is just as important as video. :) It was somewhere on dpreview.com, but I can't find it now.
 
You can't get shallow enough DOF with the 50mm f/1.4? Have you tried anything longer? 20mm lens won't give you much, but the 50mm definitely should, especially if opened all the way up.
 
Roman707 said:
I posted this question in the GH1/GH2 forum, but now I would like to get the opinion of Canon users.

After a year of waiting for the announcement of the GH2, I finally got my hands on one. During the wait, I have tried the following cams (GH1, GF1, NEX3, d7000). I must say the video on the GH2 is excellent. There are no issues with it at all. I really like the ex telle conversion feature, and the low light video shots with the 20mm are great. Also, I am using a Nikkor 35mm 1.8 DX and a Cannon 50mm 1.4 FD. Once again, video is great. I am using a shoulder rig for stabalization and manual focusing actually went surprisingly well. 20mm autofucusing during video was very unreliable as expected.


The reason I am considering getting something else like the 60D is for a couple of reasons. I know the GH2 is a better video camera, I have read this all over and I can see for myself. However, I am not too impressed with the photo capabiliteis. I am a noob to photo and video (first DSLR purchase), so part of this is due to my lack of skill. But I havent been able to get any really good images out of this camera. I am looking for somehting close to a FF camera like the 5DMarkII. The GH2 seems to lack sufficient dreamy depth of field. I had a buddy let me borrow his full frame Sony dslr and I took a few snaps of my daughter, all I can say is that I was blown away.

I know I cant get that with the GH2, but I was hoping one of my lenses would be able to come close. No cigar, not even close. The crop factor of the GH2 is 2X, with the 60D being at 1.6X, I am hoping to get better shallow depth of field with the 60D.

If I keep the GH2 I will purchase the Voigtlander 25mm 0.95 which will give me excellent low light video and depth of field, but it is manual focus (in my experience so far, great for video, not so great for photography). So my dilemma is, do I keep the GH2, or sell it and move on to something like the 60D.

I understand the GH2 is a better video camera, but I am a casual user and I will use my camera for video and pictures 50-50. I want to be able to take great pictures and shoot great video, and I can live with the limitations that dslr's bring to video. But if the GH2 is way better for video, and the 60D is not that much better for photography, I think I will keep the GH2.

Please help me decide. Are there fast lenses for the 60D with autofucus that will give me the dreamy depth of field in photos that I am looking for, and also give me good manual focus video? Does the 60D have the ability to shoot great videos for a casual user, I am not trying to make cinema quality movies!
​
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The Gh2 is a better video camera? I strongly disagree with that statement. Also how much do the Gh1 camera sell for now? Yeah, seems like they don;t hold their value that well. Trying to find wide lenses on your Gh2 camera, good luck. Personally I do not like using adapters with my cameras, and for that reason alone panasonic is not even an option for me + the size of it is simply to small.

Just because the Gh2 can provide a sharper wide shot image does not mean A) everyone likes that look and B) it is better. Now if you are talking photography than Canon is simply just another beast.
 
If my emphasis was photography first and video second I'd probably go with the D7000.The d7000 is a better stills camera than the 60D and GH2, I think the 24p footage from D7000 looks better than the 60D. If you need good slow mo video too then go with the 60D because D7000 cant do that. If you have extra cash then go with the Canon 5DmkII, Great stills and video.
 
...I bought the GH-2 in December with the idea that I would either keep it and sell my 60D, or keep the 60D and sell the GH-2. After owning the GH-2 for a couple of weeks I've come to the conclusion that I am keeping BOTH cameras.

60D Pros
- Much better stills photography camera
- Much better "hands on" feel when shooting ( especially with the grip and wrist-strap )
- Batteries last a long time for both stills and video
- I already own 2 very good lenses ( 50mm f/1.4 and 100mm f/2.0 )

60D Cons
- Aliasing and Moire image problems when shooting video
- 12 minute recording limit on video takes
- High bit-rate, but poorly implemented video CODEC ( no B frames )
- Image not as "film-like" compared to GH-2
- Audio 10 dB noisier than GH-2 ( -53 dB vs -63 dB noise-floor )

GH-2 Pros
- Much better video camera: virtually no moire, no aliasing, image is far more "film-like" than 60D
- EVF means that I can always see my settings while shooting with my eye to the viewfinder. ( better in sunlight and no LCD finder required )
- No recording limit on video takes
- Proper AVCHD CODEC implementation with B frames
- 10 dB quieter audio than 60D

GH-2 Cons
- "Hands on" feel is crappy compared to 60D. ( very small body that feels slightly fragile )
- Currently no grip available ( I've heard that one is coming in a couple of months )
- Very few fast lenses available without resorting to other brands and adapters
- Still images noisier in low-light compared to 60D
- LCD lower res than 60D ( making images harder to judge )

...I plan on buying a Panasonic AF-100 by next summer, so the GH-2 is going to eventually be my B Camera, but I also like to shoot still photos which is why I am keeping the 60D.

I've heard that a new pro m43 body is coming out from Olympus later this Spring, which might convince me to sell the 60D if it's as good at shooting still photos. ( Canon needs to up it's game this year if they want to stay relevant in the DSLR video market )
 
TheDingo said:
( Canon needs to up it's game this year if they want to stay relevant in the DSLR video market )
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Relevant? I'm more than 100% sure Canon sold more Dslr cameras last year than any other company and will continue to do so this year as well.

Secondly I'm going to purchase the new 5d if it's released this year which is simply just another beast of a camera. No doubt the Gh2 has nice video features, but for handheld work it is simply to fragile imo.

Also the support Canon gets is amazing with all kind of 3rd party gear for the cameras. I'm not worried or care about moire and aliasing as many many cameras have this problem as well. there are several works around to this.

In the end, this thread is going somewhere it doesn't need to be. Buy any camera you want and master it, but please don;t say this or that camera is better when they all have pros and cons.
 
life4eva said:
Relevant? I'm more than 100% sure Canon sold more Dslr cameras last year than any other company and will continue to do so this year as well.
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Relevant for video work. Canon and Nikon are the two top brands for DSLR still photography ( I've owned and used Canon, Nikon, and Olympus cameras for professional studio photography ), but Panasonic now produces the best camera for DSLR video work.

life4eva said:
Secondly I'm going to purchase the new 5d if it's released this year which is simply just another beast of a camera.
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I hope the next Canon records better video, otherwise I might switch to Olympus if they come out with a Pro m43 camera that can come close to Canon for general stills photography.

life4eva said:
No doubt the Gh2 has nice video features, but for handheld work it is simply to fragile imo.
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I agree. The GH-2 body does not feel as robust as a Canon or Nikon semi-pro / pro body.

But I make my living mainly shooting / editing video, so I will choose the GH-2 over the Canon right now because it produces better video.

life4eva said:
In the end, this thread is going somewhere it doesn't need to be. Buy any camera you want and master it, but please don;t say this or that camera is better when they all have pros and cons.
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But that's exactly it. There are BIG differences with the current crop of DSLR cameras when it comes to both video and stills work. For stills work I am sticking with Canon for now. For video work it's Panasonic all the way.

I wish I could get the best of both worlds with one camera, but right now that camera doesn't exist...
 
I am not a pro user, and I understand that Panasonic has a great tool for video. But what I am trying to figure out is if the 60D or D7000 has sufficient video quality for my needs? My needs are basic, I am not shooting for money, honestly a dedicated camcorder would probably better suit my needs. However, I really like the idea of a hybrid dslr that can give me creative ability with shallow depth of field and low light ability. I will be using my camera for home/family pictures and video only.

That being said, would it be a better long term investment for me to buy into one of these other systems vs the Panasonic system. This is where I am at.

I really like the video coming out of the GH2, but it seems that so many people use the Canon line for semi-pro video work, so it must be good enough for what I am trying to do. I know what the advantages are for video on the GH2 vs the competition, but are these advantages enough to outdo the advantages of the photography side with Canon and Nikon?

Lens choices are important to me, especially being able to autofucus and have stabilization. Also, the shallow depth of field, which is the kicker for me. I know the 25 1.4 and 12-50 2.5-3.3 video optimized lens combo are probably coming. This would be great. But are they still fast enought to get that really shallow depth of field? I guess this is my real question. Are there lens options on the 60D or D7000 that fit that bill? Or is full frame the only way to get what I am looking for, in which case I will just stick to m43's.
 
Roman707 said:
I really like the video coming out of the GH2, but it seems that so many people use the Canon line for semi-pro video work, so it must be good enough for what I am trying to do.
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That will change. Canon had a big....or lets says a huge jump start. But that is bound to change.


I know what the advantages are for video on the GH2 vs the competition, but are these advantages enough to outdo the advantages of the photography side with Canon and Nikon?
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Ok...this is an entirely different question....but maybe not. I think Canon and Nikon might still hold the advantage...but I'm only speculating (on both points).
 
But what I am trying to figure out is if the... D7000 has sufficient video quality for my needs?
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A first question to make sure of is, "Are you in NTSC or PAL land?"
 
Keep what you have. The GH2 can do what you want, and unless you have a SPECIFIC professional need that it can't handle I don't see why you can't shoot some good stuff with it, both video AND photo.
 
Roman707 said:
But what I am trying to figure out is if the 60D or D7000 has sufficient video quality for my needs?
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If you don't mind having minor visual glitches in your videos ( the main problem shots are: wide-angle shots with fine detail and any kind of shot with a fine geometric pattern ), then you should be very happy with the video that the Canon cameras produce.

Myself, I would decide by asking yourself which is more important to you: Still Photography or Video Photography?

For stills work Canon or Nikon is the best choice. For video work it's Panasonic right now, but Canon may catch up when they release their next generation of cameras.

Roman707 said:
but it seems that so many people use the Canon line for semi-pro video work
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This was largely because their was no better DSLR video camera available when these users bought their cameras. Everything has changed on the video side of things with the release of the GH-2 camera.

Roman707 said:
Lens choices are important to me, especially being able to autofucus and have stabilization.
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Right now you are fairly limited with the GH-2, as it's only Panasonic and Olympus lenses that offer fast lenses with autofocus. For stabilization, you are limited to ONLY Panasonic lenses. I expect this situation will improve over the next 1-2 years, but it's a drag having to wait for these new lenses to become available.

Roman707 said:
Also, the shallow depth of field, which is the kicker for me. I know the 25 1.4 and 12-50 2.5-3.3 video optimized lens combo are probably coming. This would be great. But are they still fast enought to get that really shallow depth of field? I guess this is my real question. Are there lens options on the 60D or D7000 that fit that bill? Or is full frame the only way to get what I am looking for, in which case I will just stick to m43's.
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If you are after maximum shallow depth of field, then Full-Frame cameras are the only way to go, but you have to keep in mind that right now they are not the best at shooting video. This might change with the release of the Canon 5D MK3, but who knows if it will even come out this year. ( would be nice! )
 
TheDingo said:
If you are after maximum shallow depth of field, then Full-Frame cameras are the only way to go, but you have to keep in mind that right now they are not the best at shooting video. This might change with the release of the Canon 5D MK3, but who knows if it will even come out this year. ( would be nice! )
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Shot with a Canon 5d "Run -n- Gun" style...... If quality can be done like this on the run, then you know the amazing work that has been done with these cameras on a full production set. Anyone here in this thread thinking that these Canon Cameras do not provide an amazing image are simply lying to themselves.

Done here



http://vimeo.com/18280328
 
life4eva said:
Shot with a Canon 5d "Run -n- Gun" style...... If quality can be done like this on the run, then you know the amazing work that has been done with these cameras on a full production set. Anyone here in this thread thinking that these Canon Cameras do not provide an amazing image are simply lying to themselves.
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Yes, I watched this documentary when Philip Bloom first mentioned it on his site, and the image quality is very good considering the limited equipment that was used. ( Canon 5DMK2 with 24mm f/1.4 lens, Zacuto SharpShooter shoulder stabilizer )

The 5DMK2 was also used to shoot the season finale for the TV show "House MD" last year, which was another significant achievement.

Also the motion-picture movie "Tiny Furniture" ( which is still in theatres in the US ) was shot with the Canon 7D. ( though the DOP for the movie stated that he would NEVER shoot a movie with a DSLR camera ever again: it was not a pleasant experience )

...Yet despite all of these significant achievements, there are problems with the video image quality produced by the current crop of Canon DSLR cameras, mainly aliasing and rainbow moire-patterns, and that these video problems have been largely solved by the Panasonic GH-2 camera. The GH-2 also produces a more detailed image which looks significantly sharper than what the Canon cameras produce right now.

If you are buying a new DSLR that you mainly want to use for video production, then the camera with the best looking image ( virtually no aliasing, no moire, more detail ) is the Panasonic GH-2.
 
TheDingo said:
Canon needs to up it's game this year if they want to stay relevant in the DSLR video market
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Tell you what - let's come back to this thread in a year's time and see how many TV shows and movies have been filmed using Canon equipment and how many have used the GH1/2 or Olympus. My guess at this point is that the number using Canon will totally dwarf the numbers using the GH1/2 or Olympus..... but it's only a guess ;) The opportunities for PAL based countries (which out weight the NTSC countries in size and population) are not exactly good with the GH2. I'm not even going to pick one up and look at it if they can't support 25p. Shame on you Panasonic.
 
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