JVC GY HD250 sdi out to blackmagic video assist HD to record 720p?

[norvan5]

Hi all,
Anyone know if you can successfully record 720p via the sdi out of the old (very old) JVC GY HD 250 camcorder (actually 251 PAL model) into the basic HD Blackmagic Video Assist 3G 5”? Just using a sdi to mini sdi cable, right? I own the blackmagic and it’s a terrific device for all sorts of uses via hdmi. I just wonder if it could also breathe new life into old cams like the HD250 which have sdi...

 

[NorBro]

Looking at the JVC manual, you have several options for how the SDI output works so I would think it should work.

The BM supports a variety of common resolutions so if there's a signal from the camera, it will record it.

I used the 5" HD video assist with a Hi8 camcorder from the 90s via an adapter...it will record anything it sees. (That was my way of digitizing the tapes.)

 

[norvan5]

Looking at the JVC manual, you have several options for how the SDI output works so I would think it should work.

The BM supports a variety of common resolutions so if there's a signal from the camera, it will record it.

I used the 5" HD video assist with a Hi8 camcorder from the 90s via an adapter...it will record anything it sees. (That was my way of digitizing the tapes.)

Great to hear that and cheers for the prompt reply! I’ve been using the Blackmagic to record from hdmi out even on older consumer cams and from my mac for web stuff with great results, so I’m a big fan of the device. I’ll hopefully get the opportunity to try it on the jvc cam I mentioned above soon and if it records that too in 720p (don’t think the cam has 1080p unfortunately), then it will be icing on the cake.

 

[NorBro]

It's really a necessary product to have in the world (or at least in this field) - and not just for cameras - and I'm surprised that there aren't more options out there.

The VAs (especially the newer 4K ones) and a few Atomos systems are really all that's left now.

You have some cheaper devices on Amazon, but they aren't the same.

 

[norvan5]

It's really a necessary product to have in the world (or at least in this field) - and not just for cameras - and I'm surprised that there aren't more options out there.

The VAs (especially the newer 4K ones) and a few Atomos systems are really all that's left now.

You have some cheaper devices on Amazon, but they aren't the same.

Completely agree. I also recently used a lightning to hdmi adapter to record from ipad and iphone to the BM. Very useful.

 

[nutmegger]

Years ago I owned a HD250U. I tried to extend the useable life of the camera by using an Atomos Ninja Blade and Ninja Blade SDI to HDMI converter. I could not get it to work. I no longer have the camera but still have the Ninja Blade and SDI/HDMI converter. Also, I vaguely recall the HD250 may output a SDI 1080i signal. Not sure about this.
Update: Page 20 of the user’s manual has tables listing the camera’s recording and output specs. It can output SDI 1080/50i/60i.

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/HDTV/manual/GY-HD250inst.pdf

Good luck.

 

[NorBro]

That combination very well could not have worked.

Because that older camera and depending on what its menu was set to output through the SDI (it's not just 1080i) and the HDMI/SDI adapter and the Ninja Blade and what it was seeing and/or not seeing or trying to pulldown or not pulldown with the adapter could have created a pipeline clog miscommunication somewhere preventing any signal.

The recorder basically has no idea what this is and a blue or black screen just chills.

 

[norvan5]

Years ago I owned a HD250U. I tried to extend the useable life of the camera by using an Atomos Ninja Blade and Ninja Blade SDI to HDMI converter. I could not get it to work. I no longer have the camera but still have the Ninja Blade and SDI/HDMI converter. Also, I vaguely recall the HD250 may output a SDI 1080i signal. Not sure about this.
Update: Page 20 of the user’s manual has tables listing the camera’s recording and output specs. It can output SDI 1080/50i/60i.

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/HDTV/manual/GY-HD250inst.pdf

Good luck.

Cheers for that. 1080i exclusively would put the kibosh on things but I think (and hope) you can set the output to various 720p flavors too in the menus. I’ll hopefully have the opportunity to test it out soon and will report back here.

 

[NorBro]

It looks like you can from the chart but you have to be in the HD (HDV) mode and recording in 720/60p, 720/30p, or 720/24p. (The arrow means it follows the recording format which is why there is an arrow at the top of the column for 720/60p.)

Back then it actually wasn't uncommon to have one framerate like 60p being outputted even if you were recording different framerates.

Today, the SDI/HDMI usually follow the internal recording settings and output different framerates.

 

[norvan5]

It looks like you can from the chart but you have to be in the HD (HDV) mode and recording in 720/60p, 720/30p, or 720/24p. (The arrow means it follows the recording format which is why there is an arrow at the top of the column for 720/60p.)

Back then it actually wasn't uncommon to have one framerate like 60p being outputted even if you were recording different framerates.

Today, the SDI/HDMI usually follow the internal recording settings and output different framerates

Excellent! Super helpful chart, thank you. May seem like an odd concern, but do I just need to set the required HDV to have the associated signal automatically come through the SDI or do you also need to be recording to tape at the same time to have it work? Wouldn’t be too enthusiastic at the thought of having to mess with mini dv tapes again after all these years!

 

[NorBro]

I'm not 100% sure with that camera, but I highly doubt you'd also need to be recording...I guess you'll know soon when you test it.

 

[norvan5]

I'm not 100% sure with that camera, but I highly doubt you'd also need to be recording...I guess you'll know soon when you test it.

Thanks. Yep, We’ll soon see. Will post here and let you guys know. Mini DV was a great archiving format, but I just hated that the tape mechanisms went haywire after prolonged use in so many cams back them (Canon XM2 for me. Grrr...).

 

[QuickHitRecord]

A cool way to breathe some life back into old cameras. I love this kind of stuff. To which cameras have you successfully been able to record externally?

 

[NorBro]

Thanks. Yep, We’ll soon see. Will post here and let you guys know. Mini DV was a great archiving format, but I just hated that the tape mechanisms went haywire after prolonged use in so many cams back them (Canon XM2 for me. Grrr...).

Actually one thing I was just thinking about when refreshed with this thread is if 60p will be okay for you since you don't have other choices in this mode?

I know many people are okay with 60p or even 30p, but most shoot in 24p and you wouldn't have that option with the SDI (or 25p).

 

[norvan5]

A cool way to breathe some life back into old cameras. I love this kind of stuff. To which cameras have you successfully been able to record externally?

Well, I’ve only tried not so old consumer cams like the Panasonic HDC TM900 so far to get quick and dirty Prores files for fast turnaround edits. Oh, and I tried an original RED ONE too; the big lesson there being that the hdmi output is limited to 720p on that cam. Wanted to try the Panny HVX200 but no hdmi/hd sdi output, so can’t use the BM with it.

The JVC GY HD250 will be an intriguing one though. It’ll be limited to 720p again but it’ll be fun to see a) if it works at all with the BM to get 720p and b) how good/bad the image will be. Call me silly but in a world of small and very powerful cams, there’s a charm to toying around with hulking great ENG form factor cams like the JVC. Love all the manual controls etc.

 

[norvan5]

Actually one thing I was just thinking about when refreshed with this thread is if 60p will be okay for you since you don't have other choices in this mode?

I know many people are okay with 60p or even 30p, but most shoot in 24p and you wouldn't have that option with the SDI (or 25p).

60p would be limiting but I’d settle for it with the BM just to get to use the cam tapeless when the mood grabs me. Like I was saying above, there’s something charming about using these old cams and they can still be very functional for web stuff/youtube and the like.

 

[QuickHitRecord]

Yes, that's a limitation of the Red One. But in my opinion, the Red Raw is 90% of the reason to use that camera. Please do keep us posted on whether you are successful with the JVC!

FYI, I think you can get it to work with the HVX200. It requires a component to HDMI adapter box ($20 on Amazon, but it requires its own power source). However, the HVX200 has a much easier and cleaner solution in P2 cards.

I got it to work with an XH-A1 though, which is only tape-based. I think that the signal was uncompressed this way and the image quality was actually improved:

Big tangle of wires to get it to work, though. If I owned that camera again, I would probably just record to tape.

 

[NorBro]

Here's a Sony TRV67 from 1999 (the camera I mentioned on the last page).

I'm actually in the process of filming some stuff on some brand new Hi8 tapes I got from eBay, but thought it would be cool to show it here working with the VA.

Likely via a similar setup to the one above where the box is upscaling the video signal.

This was the first camera I ever used and owned in 9th grade (that one in the picture).

 

[QuickHitRecord]

Nice! What are you filming with your camera? I am currently using our family's old Sony TRV65 from the year before yours to digitize a stack of old family tapes. At first, it was chewing every tape. But eventually I found a stuck roller and worked it loose and it's been solid since.

I've been thinking about shooting something with it too, just to see what's possible in the hands of a professional. I am actually quite amazed at how good the footage looks in the close ups. And the autofocus is pretty amazing too. I've seen some worse AF implementations in modern cameras.

 

[NorBro]

I've seen some worse AF implementations in modern cameras.

Yup, 1000%.

That is a rare topic that is rarely discussed because there are only a handful of us camera nerds who do this, but at some point in the world something happened where they ruined the AF in different camera models or maybe couldn't get it to work as well with newer hardware.

___

As far as filming, just test shots.

I'm hoping if I watch enough of the footage I can teleport back in time.