FS7: "Just shoot 23.98."

Vegz said:
^Bad producers^

I'm a producer and video production business owner and I always make sure to know WHO I'm hiring and WHAT I'm hiring. It's a producer's job to not have any surprises at the end of the day. The fact that I read and research and understand the technology helps me to know who is a professional BS'er vs the real deal.
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Depends on the type of producer we're talking about here. If it is a freelance segment producer hired 20 minutes ago to organize a shoot for an interview for a national show, they may have a bunch of t=other fish to fry. This person has to get everything organized and administrated for a job that will start rolling the next morning and they don't even have flights and hotels booked, not to mention hair & make-up and a few hundred other details. They want to hire a pro local DP with gear who will provide files at the end of the shoot. This producer likely works for a dozen or more different shows at any given time and has absolutely no idea who will be editing the work. All she/he (usually she) knows is that she was told "23.98" and she had 30 minutes to work on everything else while she's in the cab on the way to the airport.

That's the way much of our business operates, for better or worse. It's like when you walk into a Starbucks to order a regular coffee, no sugar and are bombarded with options. Just shut up and give me a regular coffee, no sugar. I don't care if you can make me the finest mocca-double-half-latte-espresso-kitchen-sink-whip. Coffee, now.
 
You got it that's the guy to avoid in the long run.

Mitch Gross said:
Depends on the type of producer we're talking about here. If it is a freelance segment producer hired 20 minutes ago to organize a shoot for an interview for a national show, they may have a bunch of t=other fish to fry. This person has to get everything organized and administrated for a job that will start rolling the next morning and they don't even have flights and hotels booked, not to mention hair & make-up and a few hundred other details. They want to hire a pro local DP with gear who will provide files at the end of the shoot. This producer likely works for a dozen or more different shows at any given time and has absolutely no idea who will be editing the work. All she/he (usually she) knows is that she was told "23.98" and she had 30 minutes to work on everything else while she's in the cab on the way to the airport.

That's the way much of our business operates, for better or worse. It's like when you walk into a Starbucks to order a regular coffee, no sugar and are bombarded with options. Just shut up and give me a regular coffee, no sugar. I don't care if you can make me the finest mocca-double-half-latte-espresso-kitchen-sink-whip. Coffee, now.
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Mitch Gross said:
Depends on the type of producer we're talking about here. If it is a freelance segment producer hired 20 minutes ago to organize a shoot for an interview for a national show, they may have a bunch of t=other fish to fry. This person has to get everything organized and administrated for a job that will start rolling the next morning and they don't even have flights and hotels booked, not to mention hair & make-up and a few hundred other details. They want to hire a pro local DP with gear who will provide files at the end of the shoot. This producer likely works for a dozen or more different shows at any given time and has absolutely no idea who will be editing the work. All she/he (usually she) knows is that she was told "23.98" and she had 30 minutes to work on everything else while she's in the cab on the way to the airport.

That's the way much of our business operates, for better or worse. It's like when you walk into a Starbucks to order a regular coffee, no sugar and are bombarded with options. Just shut up and give me a regular coffee, no sugar. I don't care if you can make me the finest mocca-double-half-latte-espresso-kitchen-sink-whip. Coffee, now.
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I can see how that would work in that side of the industry. I operate a boutique video production company that handles small to mid-sized clients and when I hire local freelancers I try to give them the time of day to avoid the OP's situation.
 
I would shoot 3840x2160 UHD / 23.973 in CineEI SLOG3. Then you transcode files to 1920x1080 with LUT of your choice, eg BertLUT burned in and deliver in Prores HQ . Since it's never wise to deliver raw data, this will also give you a chance to discard shots that didn't work out. For people who just want a camera guy and have no real idea about tech specs, that's what they want: easy to edit, already graded footage that looks super dope. If they ever need something else you have the LOG data as backup.
 
Personally, I don't get upset and I don't think a producer is bad at their job if they're not terribly detailed about codecs and color spaces and framerates. I do my best to get that information from them, or ask them to put me in touch with the person who does have that information, but whenever any of that fails, I fallback on safety formats based on the information as provided. If it's going to a television channel, I'll look up what format they broadcast in. If it's going to the web I'll make sure I shoot progressive. If they don't specify frame size, I default to 1080. If they don't specify codec, I default to XDCAM422. If they don't specify color space/gamut, I default to REC709.

Only one thing makes me upset: If, after having asked for specifics, and not being given them, the producer complains about my defaults after the fact. That's rare. But that's when I would agree you have a bad producer. Otherwise, shooting those simple defaults pays my bills, what is there to complain about if everyone's happy? Not all work is prestige. There are plenty of shoots I do for pay, not reel or passion. I deliever a quality product, but that's all. If they wanted to pay me a solid rate to shoot miniDV tape, I'll do it.
 
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Mitch Gross said:
Depends on the type of producer we're talking about here. If it is a freelance segment producer hired 20 minutes ago to organize a shoot for an interview for a national show, they may have a bunch of t=other fish to fry. This person has to get everything organized and administrated for a job that will start rolling the next morning and they don't even have flights and hotels booked.
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The Producer for my "just shoot 23.98" job emailed me this morning to ask for a hotel recommendation for tonight. Mitch hit it on the head. The Producer was only just now booking his hotel on the same day he was flying, less than 24 hrs in advance. This job is a corporate job. Some of these Corporate media folks are still in the days when the only option shooting video was the frame rate. Typically it was 60i, 24p if you wanted to be "arty". Oh, and drop or non-drop timecode. You informed the Camera guy of the frame rate you wanted, whether it was drop or non-drop, and that was it. I suspect that some Producers are still of that mindset and when given an assignment they ask "What frame rate?" but are not yet in the habit of asking about codec and such. And, if I am not mistaken, on the C300 shoots there isn't any choice of codec. On the Producers C300 shoots the Camera guys / gals aren't needing to know the codec of choice. And the same with any shoots still on the HDX900. Needing to inform the shooter of the desired codec is still something relatively new to many Field Producers / clients.

As to seeking the info from an editor, on some of these types of jobs it isn't yet known where it will be edited or who will be editing it. It may not be edited until months after the shoot. Some of it is just "archival"- the company is shooting it just to have it, for possible use down the road but no definitive use as of yet. It may never see an editor. Believe me, I have persisted in asking the representative for a given job if they can speak to an editor or someone with technical knowledge and often it is like pulling teeth. The poor Field Producer has to make waves back up the chain of command harassing people into trying to get technical specs, specs that are like Greek to them, and cajole others to endeavor on a pursuit they do not have the time or interest in making.

This discussion has been valuable to all, I hope. Interesting to hear the experiences of others and learn what you do when no specs are forthcoming or only receiving partial specs. The clients are learning, just as we are. Have pity on the Field Producer. It is often a thankless job. One can only imagine some of the crews they get stuck with.
 
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MPEG422 would be my choice, with a burnt in LUT. We use this for a TV show I'm doing, mostly because of space saving as the servers would be chocked with all our footage (often 3 fs7 running). They did a lot of testing for post before we settled for the codec. It holds up quite well for a bit of grading in FCPX (yes it works perfectly for "proffesionals" as well ;-)), and the first season looked good when broadcast.
 
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