FS7: "Just shoot 23.98."

JPNola

JPNola

Veteran
Me: "Okay, but what codec? ProRes? XAVC? Mpeg422?"

Guy hiring me: "All I know is 23.98."

Me: "S-Log? CineEI? Custom? How quick is the turnaround? What will be the end use?"

Guy hiring me: "All I know is 23.98. It's for marketing. Look, I have a flight to catch. Just shoot 23.98, understood?"

Me: "Erm, okay. Got it. 23.98."

-end conversation-

So what do I do? It's now 12 hours before the shoot and all the client knows is "shoot 23.98". The tone of his voice made it clear he doesn't want to be bothered further with such questions.

I have this happen more often than you might think. I inquire weeks in advance as to camera specs and all I get is a frame rate instruction at the last minute. No one in the chain of communication knows anything about no "S-Log codec gamut LUT XAVC mumbo jumbo". Just do the shoot and stop complicating things with all the technical questions. All they know is they were told to hire C300 or Fs7 and have the shooter shoot at 23.98. That fancy new look. Shallow death of field or whatever it is. C300 or Fs7. 23.98

My clock is ticking. What would you shoot? Vanilla MPEG?
 
How many hours of footage you will end up with you recon? If not a lot I would shoot CineEI "negative" and transcode it using catalyst browse to what Mitch said. Provide them output files if they'll ask for something else later on you'll be covered.
 
it might have been the wrong questions. If the client isn't in the film business he won't know about these codec colorspace mumbo jumbo. Probably it would have been better to ask who will deal with the footage and then either ask these people or draw your conclusions. If it's too late for that than do what alohype and Mitch said.

(When I ask for still photo format and colorspace and I get the answer "we need 300dpi" I supply sRGB tif files. The equivalent to REC709 MPEG. You won't tease out the most of your shots but the risk that somebody ruins it because of his lack of knowledge is low.)
 
To repeat what I said in PM for the benefit of anyone else in a similar situation - If you aren't dealing with technical people ask who is editing it and ask to speak to them. Ask them what their requirements are and how they'll be handling the footage and work backwards from there. I have a client who employs and Avid editor who refuses to touch 4k footage because her system is not up to it. I have a client who hires an old-school offline editor who never does anything at all in terms of colour correction to the image. I have a client who will take my log footage and put a horrid OTT Magic Bullet preset on it, and I have plenty of clients who will work with log footage properly.

I just had a whole piece I shot go out still in log because I assumed the person they got editing that particular one would know the workflow for handling log footage (never been an issue before).



Basically aside from the cameraman, 9 times out of the 10 the editor is the person most likely to have some knowledge of technical aspects as well as know the workflow, so speak to them.
 
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+1 Ben Scott, +1 Mitch Gross. If you can get the client to put you in touch with the editor or post supervisor directly, then go with what they ask for. If there's no one to talk to, MPEG/XDCAM422 and REC709 is the best default.
 
Over here in the UK if you can record to it then Pro Res would probably be the most widely accepted codec for now. Personally I'd take a WYSIWYG burned in LC709a Lut in Cine-EI mode over custom mode but I guess that depends.

I'd suggest (at least on this side of the pond) MPEG is more specific to news/ENG material for fast turnaround.

99% of the time I supply the LUT with the log footage and a text file about how to apply it in various NLEs as it stops that whole 'OMFG YOU COST US SO MUCH TIME IN THE EDIT SUITE WITH THIS WEIRD FORMAT' you sometimes get if you can show them how it is like 3 clicks away from being done.
 
I'm based in Tennessee, USA and I've found REC709 XDCAM422 to be the foolproof solution here. On this forum we're well aware the camera is capable of more than REC709 XDCAM422 captures, but there are plenty of clients - at least here in the USA that aren't color grading savvy and just want a simple WYSIWYG super-quick post workflow. I have a client that still edits on FCP7, and I have to make sure when I ship him footage I've transcoded the MXFs to .mov containers, or I don't hear the end of it.

Providing the highest quality is great, but sometimes you're better off providing what the client expects and just cashing the check. And sure - you can record log, and then apply LUTs before you ship the footage, but now you're spending extra time after the shoot to do that extra encoding and data management. You have to think about whether you're being paid for that time, and whether for the destination it makes sense to bother.
 
When I do A7sII b camera stuff I have an Avid client that doesn't know how to transcode and that flavour of XVAC doesn't work natively yet so I always transcode it just to make life easier for everyone.

As you say it all depends.

If it is something I will never see again and will never want to see again I'll do it in the least time-consuming way (probably burning LC709a straight into the footage).

If it is something where I might want to show it to someone at some point I'll go the extra mile.

Patrick O' Sullivan on his Wandering DP podcast made a great point about how you only ever do a job for the money, the career or the relationship and if you get 2 out of 3 on a job you're laughing. Any time I have 2 out of 3 I'll always go over and above the call of duty.
 
This happens to me most every time I work with a producer or hired camera guy unfamiliar with the FS7's many many many options. I always have to make them find a way to get to the editor, and it's usually an 11th hour response, if at all. It's very annoying and puts the camera owner/operator under a lot of needless pressure. Do your homework, producers! So far I've had luck using 709/Mpeg 422 for news/events. For corporate interviews, HD/Custom HG7 or 8. Fallback for commercials is 4K/CineEi/Slog3. It's getting better now, in the early adopter days it was a true nightmare because nobody knew what they were asking for at all.
 
That is harsh you don't even know if 4K or FHD! Or 720p even!

Approach this as:
a) contact the editor and discuss
b) if that fails, then shoot to the minimal level you feel comfortable to still cover your ass (me personally that would be 10bit 422 4K, but you might feel differently) but give them 8bit 420 WYSIWYG HD files from your masters.

This where an ultra cheap Ninj 2 recorder could come in handy (or splurge out and get the Samurai Blade or BMD VA so that you get SDI).

Then you simply give them ProRes LT FHD files from your recorder with the LUT already applied went sent out to the recorder.

If anal about keeping your rig compact then get the Atomos Ninja Star (especially as CFast cards are so cheap now!).
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...to_ninja_star_ninja_pocket_size_recorder.html

If your camera can do Proxy recording at the same time to a second card, then select the highest quality Proxy recording and apply the LUT then use that.
 
Thank you much for the suggestions, folks!

Rec709. HD it is.

No time for any cooking in Resolve- the client is bringing a travel drive to transfer media on location at wrap. Wham, bam, thank you m'am.

fyi- Had an Fs7 owner call me yesterday in a panic because his ND wheel became inoperable. An hour later another Fs7 owner called me because he was having some sort of issue with his camera "flashing", as he put it, when shooting against a white backdrop. I'm just hoping I make it through my shoot today- these things come in threes, as they say.

Thanks again for all the timely replies.

John
 
morgan_moore said:
Id prefer to shoot log, give a quick lut and twingle in Resolve and deliver proRes if time allows.

S
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Usually these "frame rate , I don't know codecs" clients will pay for shooting only. I won't open Resolve unless paid extra. If we're doing this to make a living, transcoding, color adjustment in post has to be a line item. Otherwise I do the bake in look thats it!!
 
Absolutely. One of the best things I have done professionally and creatively is start saying "I'm afraid I won't be able to help you with that project'. If i know from the outset that I can't guarantee doing a good job I turn it down down, unless I am reallly broke that month ;)
 
icarusfilm said:
Producers are for the most part anxiety ridden administrative assistants.
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And that, everyone, is the quote of the thread.

Don't go to the hardware store to buy eggs. This person will not have the answer you need. If you cannot easily get to the correct person, go to a standard safe fallback position and do the best you can. We can all still do quality work in HD REC709. In fact it just means that we have to do that much better because they won't be able to do anything to help in post.

A camera is just a box with a sensor on the front anyway. Lenses and lighting is where we show our craft. And this is coming from the guy who sells the Odyssey & Apollo!
 
icarusfilm said:
Producers are for the most part anxiety ridden administrative assistants..
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^Bad producers^

I'm a producer and video production business owner and I always make sure to know WHO I'm hiring and WHAT I'm hiring. It's a producer's job to not have any surprises at the end of the day. The fact that I read and research and understand the technology helps me to know who is a professional BS'er vs the real deal.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Rec709. HD unless they say otherwise. MPEG because anyone can edit it. 23.98. Get it right in camera and don't look back.
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Mitch nailed it. Can't go wrong being safe. They don't want or want to know about anything other than cutting and distro. Pretty pictures right out of the box. They'll love it and you won't be stressed.
 
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