Just got a new camera - Sony F35

I'm using an Accuscene (which works via the camera's VF port), although I'd quite like to get a sony C30 again. I had the C35 with the camera, but it was too big to fit with the lenses I was using.

I should also point out that the camera has a test out which is composite out and is super handy because you can attach all sorts of legacy monitors to it. Also composite is quicker for processing so sometimes preferable over SDI for a viewfinder, which tends to take a frame or two to process. However, SDI is much, much sharper.
 
I'm using a DP4 connected through the hdmi of the hyper deck. It's fairly easy to press the display button on and off to get the information and menus up on the DP4, and then switch them off before recording. I like the ability to know the hyper deck is recording because I can see what is looping through. Only downside to this method is you can't view a MLUT when using SLOG, you have to look at the LOG footage because what you see is what you are recording.

Tilta makes a really nice EVF arm mount I've been looking into, looks similar in function to the solid camera arm. I think everyone agrees, magic arms suck for viewfinder adjustments.
 
They truly, truly do. Anyone that shot RED about four years ago was scarred for life by any production that turned up with the massive red finder and a NOGA arm. Those things had a lifespan of about two weeks if babied, or six hours on a student shoot.
 
hi everybody on the thread, I was thinking of getting an F35 myself too but decided not to go with this camera because of too many unsolved problems concerning recorders and the rising 4K market. Nevertheless I have invested in a cookezoom 18-100mm T3,0 first which perfectly fits the camera and produces a wonderful image. I have to sell the lens now because cameras are getting smaller and lighter and I cant rent the lens as often as I have thought. Any interest send mail to kronsteiner.lukas@gmail.com
 
In process of closing a deal on a F35 myself, but I'm also looking at picking up some smaller CMOS cameras for shoots that do not ask for the troubles of bringing the F35 along. One of the biggest debates nowadays, besides dynamic range and resolution, are motion cadence/frame cadence/motion rendering.

Now it's established that CCD sensors renders better motion than rolling shutter CMOS sensors. But except for apparent jello test/spinning wheel test, can one easily spot the difference in a regular, say, dialogue shot? I'm not going to lie I can't. While watching the F35 footage I have to say I do FEEL like there's some sort of different motion/cadence going on, but can't never put my finger on exactly what it is. I'm even afraid that it could be my mind playing tricks, since I know it was shot on a global shutter. In the case that a CCD sensor and a CMOS one runs at the exact same frame rate shooting a same setup with no fast motion, and you don't know which was shot on which, can you pick out the shot that was shot on the CMOS? Everything else asides but frame cadence.

In short, is frame cadence that much of a problem given the CMOS sensors are not thrown into its worst situation? I know for a fact that the recent higher-end cameras still utilize rolling shutter CMOS (except for the F55 and the REDs with the global shutter add-on) - but to be honest for scenes without fast motion I can't tell a damn difference between the cameras. Is cadence then a hyped aspect? Is there some sort of test that clearly shows the difference (not the regular rolling shutter tests).

Somewhere along in the board someone mentioned how the F35 renders much better motions than the BMCC. Is that the global shutter vs. rolling shutter issue? Or is it a cadence issue?
 
Hi Dangtienanh,

You will find that generally most of us old cynics/F35 lovers find it hilarious that most camera manufacturers are now touting "global shutter" as one of their major selling points. Seems they cut off their hair to make a fortune in wigs!

As a professional cinematographer, comparing PROFESSIONAL cameras, I would say that in normal usage I have NO issues whatsoever with the motion on CMOS cameras. The only things that spring to mind are whip pans on a higher shutter speed and strobe light effects.

I did a shoot with the ALEXA with some pretty crazy stuff going on and it was only with strobe lighting that I could see the rolling shutter at play.

That said, lower end cameras will definitely show their jelly effect sooner than others.

Now, as to what makes the F35 special or different, although I am not entirely convinced you can see cadence in a relatively still frame, the F35 definitely has an appreciable grain pattern to it. Most CMOS cameras have a fixed or odd-looking noise which is fairly "unnatural". The F35, while definitely a technically inferior picture to REDs/ALEXAs, has a really appealing quality with a nice random grain in every frame. I think that is one of the things which makes it feel, to us lot at least, film-like.

I hope that might help a few issues. Others will definitely have other opinions.
 
Thanks for the answer JM, I see we both agree on the fact that CMOS, if not being put in its worst situation (strobe flash, whip pans, fast moving objects), looks just fine as CCD or film, motion/cadence wise.

The cause for my concern was from reading somewhere on the Internet where people was talking about camera manufacturers' difference in cadence (to them Panasonic seems to get it right and Sony doesn't) To my eyes I don't see a damn thing that differs them lol, so I thought I could be missing what other people can see.

And no never had I said I can 'see' cadence, but kind 'felt' there's some sort of nicer motion from the F35. But then of course, like I said, it could be just my mind playing tricks because I have a thing for the F35s and knew the footage was shot on them :D
 
No problem :)

I'd like to think I have more sensitive eyes than most when it comes to cameras, but there are way way more things about the F35 you'll notice first than motion rendering (in a still-ish scene).

There are still a lot of CMOS-based cameras that are still poor for handheld etc... the absolute worst, ironically, are GoPros etc... which really, really would benefit from being CCDs but I understand why they aren't.

The key issue is if we're comparing the F35 with cameras it should be compared against (eg. ALEXA) then I wouldn't worry.

The BMCC is a different beast because it's a two grand camera and no camera costing that much was EVER perfect. It's ridiculously good for what it is, but F35 it isn't.
 
I think one of the problems we are seeing with this thread is that unsolved problems from around page 10-40 are being solved, but it is very hard to find the progress unless you learn to use some of the search features. Almost needs a sub forum for the F35 to keep everything organized.

I wouldn't say the recorder options are unsolved, right now the sound devices workflow is proving 12-bit works, and Odyssey is looking very promising as well. On paper the KiPro Quad works as well although I don't think we've seen footage from this combo. As more and more 4k recorders are released, I believe they will keep adding 12bit HD to the recording possibilities. The hyperdrive is proven as a workhorse (except for those f'ing bnc connectors) and while I'd also like that extra color the F35 is capable of, put 10 bit up on a projection screen and tell me there is anything wanting.

4k...in hollywood it is becoming a buzzword that started in features and now has trickled down to even the youtube level, everyone has to have 4k. On one hand, the fact that HD took the better part of 10 years to get put into most houses, what is the real timeline for 4k? Although I believe a few Walmart black fridays could push it forward as fast as the production markets want to push it, are there really 4k cameras out there? I don't believe the Red One was a true 4k camera, just because the final output was a 4k file size. The 5k chip of the F35 is what is needed to properly color the 1080P frame, and this is more than whats going into the Red One 4k image. Perhaps there is a 4k workflow for the F35 which involves uprezzing the 12 bit HD to 4k, I have seen this done with other HD cameras with great results. I still have a hard time telling the difference between uncompressed HD played on a 4k screen and 4k material played on a 4k screen. Compression is the biggest marketing trick in our industry, the claim that is doesn't degrade quality in some form is simply ridiculous. Perhaps there is a 4k recorder on the horizon which will uprez HD to 4k on the fly, haha a bit wishful I guess but something which might have lots of uses and can be applied to the F35 for 4k end result footage.

I was attracted to the panasonic GH2 because of the renegade hacker spirit of the whole project. I know it is wishful thinking to hope for someone to figure out the very protected source code for the F35 camera, but it is fun to think about the possibilities of this camera if we could open up what it is capable of in todays world instead of how it was written to be a film camera replacement camera 7 years ago.
 
I downloaded a sample frame from the new 6K DRAGON sensor that RED are touting. Sample footage that they shot with excellent lenses (Schneider Cine-Xenar IIIs) and I know they wouldn't let anything other than the best out in public at this stage.

I then grabbed a random frame from a recent short I shot on my F35, using my 30-year old Zeiss standard speeds.

I maximised them both on my PC screen which I'd like to think is fairly unbiased (it is a 30" HP professional monitor with a res of 2560x1600) and you know what, I was slightly disappointed at how little difference there was! Sure the epic was a BIT sharper, but it really was only a little bit. It isn't the night-and-day difference that the numbers would have you believe (it certainly isn't the chasm from SD to HD).

But then, the F35's sensor resolution isn't so far from the DRAGON. It makes a little more sense. Five years ago, this camera was £2,000 a day for the body. The thing is built like a god-damn tank. I had some F35 footage in a grading suite and the colourist just fell in love with it. "I can't believe this camera is older than the RED" he said.

If 4K really is absolutely essential to survival, someone better tell ARRI, because clearly they have a Turkey on their hands. I was shooting with an F900 LONG after tape went out of fashion. Better cameras may come along but the old ones don't suddenly get worse! If I was offered a ten-year-old Ferrari to replace my brand new Ford, I'd go for it in a heart beat!

I love my F35. It's big, it's heavy, but it makes some wonderful images. And it is going to be with me for quite some time.
 
macgregor said:
mmm, but wait, the RED is a bit older than the F35!
Click to expand...

I personally think of the F35 as being the same age as the Genesis. Although they are not the SAME camera, they are similar enough. I'm not sure exactly what year the F35 was available for sale (2008?) but the Genesis was kicking around for several years before that.
 
yachacha said:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-F65-PACKAGE-/161129218981?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item25840cc3a5
I find it interesting that these are for sale.
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Some rental houses like to shift kit after a certain time / number of rentals, regardless of condition. I remember seeing Alexas for sale not long after they came out.

I don't think the F65 has been as popular as it deserves to be. At that price, it'd pay for a set of Cooke Mini S4s too which are probably a lot more valuable to a rental house.

Better than Panavision, they just smash stuff to bits.
 
Beautiful pictures there Hunter.

I just love that grain pattern in there. The picture is sharp and clear, but there's a definite character to it. Sony nailed the "film look" with this beast so well, it hurts.
 
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