Just got a new camera - Sony F35

Yeahhh bad news for everyone, or at least for me.
We've been doing grading wrong all this time.

Check these examples:

Clipboard.jpg


Clipboard2.jpg


The footage is the same on left/right but it has been interpreted as different color spaces. On the left it's been left with the embedded color space which defaults as sRGB and on the right the same shot has been interpreted as AdobeRGB on a sRGB project. Which one do you like more? For me the one on the right looks much better when seen fullscreen (hard to tell difference on thumbnails). Skintones are better, shadows look better, and colors are more vivid. I also checked what would happen if I by boosting saturation on the sRGB file I could get closer to the image on the right, and no chance, the moment you start increasing the saturation, blues and skin tones go too crazy.

So what I quickly theorized on my previous post is seen here in real life footage. Watching Slog on sRGB makes colors dull (do not confuse with Slog gamma curve being flat, this is a different subject).

Why did I choose AdobeRGB to interpret Sony's S-gamut? Because I don't have a S-gamut color space in Adobe After effects. And because I look at the CIE graphs and both color spaces kind of match or at least are closer to each other than what Sgamut and sRGB are.

Now I get a few conclusions with this quick experiment:
- where can I assign color spaces to clips on Davinci resolve? Is there even a color management setting hidden somewhere in Davinci?
- people shooting with other cameras in Sgamut and doing simple workflows are doing it wrong (ie: F65, F55 and F5).
- we need to get/build the F35 S-gamut color space profile if we want to have accurate/nice colors
 
Resolve has two colorspaces: YRGB and ACES.
Adobe's Speedgrade has tons of choices, but not the ones you are looking for.

For sake of playing along, I brought some of my F35/Pix240 footage into Photoshop and played with the assigned profiles. I saw no noticeable different between the file's SRGB and AdobeRGB.
 
Justin,
Got a CineDeckEX a few months ago and have not played much with it. Can you detail a bit about which format you are using with the F35, your workflow, etc.
I'm going to be doing more shooting soon and would like to bypass the road of hard knocks! ;-)
(avoiding ProRes problems with FCP was my original intent).
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
Justin,
Got a CineDeckEX a few months ago and have not played much with it. Can you detail a bit about which format you are using with the F35, your workflow, etc.
I'm going to be doing more shooting soon and would like to bypass the road of hard knocks! ;-)
(avoiding ProRes problems with FCP was my original intent).
Click to expand...

best is cineform fs1 or 2 (2 can be overkill) and get the cineform software (first light etc) as there are handy tools for working with cineform files like meta data non destructive first light manipulation. It's quite cool to do a first grade and after saving there's no rendering needed, the files store everything in the meta data space and retain what u did, in all software packages (PP, FCP etc) u use them in afterwards. There's even color/gamma space conversions, eg. slog to cineon, to take it into cine log space for film luts later in whatever grading package (like resolve)

but it to get 50p the only option on cinedeck is cineform 8bit 422, not 10bit.

and another BIG but, only 422 codecs retain full range (109%) all the 444 codecs (including prores) clip at 100%

as we all know, prores might be more native on mac, but the gamma inconsistencies between software packages is a ball ache. Rather go cineform

hope this helps.
 
Another thing to keep in mind when doing 50p:

set f35 to 10bit 422
Then set the deck input to: single link, 10bit 422, frame rate 50
then set codec to: cineform (fs1)
then in preferences, set the "P not PsF" on! Very important, as the f35 outputs 50p as true progressive, not progressive segmented frames (don't forget to set it back again when not doing slow mo!)
make sure u see a signal and u should be good to go
 
Jusgorilla said:
There are F35 IDTs for ACES, no way to get it into resolve tho

https://github.com/jeremyselan/aces-dev/tree/master/transforms/ctl/idt/sony/S-Log
Click to expand...


Alright, so I've been doing more tests.
I tried SLog 2 ACES IDT workflow vs the "old" Kodak emulsion LUT workflow, and I have to say I'm getting pretty much the same results, which is great, because the LUT workflow is faster (performance wise right now) and simpler (ACES on davinci has some glitches). So all good regarding color spaces as long as you use the latest LUTs we published here.
 
Awesome...thanks. I have a Pix240i, but the specific reason I got a Cinedeck is to avoid the ProRes pain. I'll be damned, everytime I grade something, it looks great in Resolve, take it into FCP and the gammas change, etc. It's MADDENING!
 
Sorry I've been a bit inactive for a while. Sad to see a few members getting shot of their F35s...

Mine is still going very strong and I plan to make some mods to it soon to reduce the size of the IF box.

Due to politics, I have been using an F3 with a PIX 240 on it rather than my F35/cinedeck and I have to say I am quite surprised.

The quality of pictures from the F3 is excellent, really really excellent, but the ergonomics are dire! The combination of camera/pix and all the ancilliaries is just terrible! It is so.... spiky. Everything's attached to some awful arm or rod or whatever. The camera's just not the right shape to take professional things so it is a bit awkward.

I know the F35 is much heavier, but I prefer the fact it is just built to have a matte box, follow focus and viewfinder all in the right place, easily. I also much prefer it for handheld as there is not decent viewfinder (or mounting point for one) on the F3!!
 
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